[Dixielandjazz] Two beat or four beat that is the question......................

[briantowers]

Brian Harvey asks "What is the difference between a two beat band and a four
beat band?"

It is a question of emphasis.  All bands generally play four beats to the
bar but different instruments will often emphasise different beats.  For
example, what we think of as a two beat band, such as Turk Murphy, would
likely have the brass bass hitting only the first and third beats of the bar
(which is what we call the on-beat - 1/3) and leaving out the second and
fourth beats.  Banjo is likely playing each of the four beats, perhaps with
a slight emphasis on the second and fourth beats.  The piano is generally
playing four beats to the bar.  If there is a drummer there, I believe he
would be hitting the first and third beats of the bar on the bass drum;
playing 4 beats to the bar on the snare or tom tom and mostly using the
cymbal to bring in the off-beat (2nd and 4th)  However the overall
prevailing "feel" to the rhythm would be the two beat sound dominated by the
brass bass - playing on the first and third beats, with occasional ventures
into 4/4.

There are many examples of two beat bands in what is referred to as the West
Coast sound - the style of the Turk Murphy, Lu Watters, Bob Scobey; South
Frisco bands etc.  Some of the King Oliver formations used brass bass or
bass sax, again emphasising the first and third beats and giving that two
beat sound.

In what is sometimes loosely referred to as a 'four beat band" we usually
find a string bass instead of a brass bass.  Some examples of bands
generally  playing with this focus are:  George Lewis, Kid Thomas, Eddie
Condon, Wild Bill Davidson's bands, Eoro-trad or brit-trad etc and swing
bands.  What about Louis Armstrong?  Well he did both.  The original Hot
Five (with no bass or drums) played four beats to the bar, laid down by the
solid Lil Hardin on piano and Johnny St Cyr on 6 string banjo.    Later,
when the Hot Seven's introduced Pete Briggs on tuba and Dodds on drums, we
hear a definite two beat feel, for example "Willie The Weeper" and "Weary
Blues" when Briggs hits those first and third notes on his tuba.  Then the
later Louis bands, with string bass back in the line-up instead of tuba,
reverts to a four-beat sound.

Duke Ellington's early classic recordings have a  two-beat (1/3) feel,
especially when he was using brass bass.  (East St Louis Toodle-OO - March
22/27) By the end of 1927, however, Wellman Braud was in the band on string
bass.  In "Jubilee Stomp" (Jan 19/28) we hear Braud playing two beat bass,
mostly bowing.  "Hot & Bothered" (Oct 1/28) is a lovely example of the two
styles.  The first two choruses are two-beats to the bar (1/3)  and then
Braud swings into 4 beats to the bar for the next two choruses, as Bubber
Miley solos on trumpet, then it finishes on 2 beats to the bar.
It is Impossible to categorise the early Ellington bands as two beat or four
beat and the same goes for many other bands.

In a so-called "four beat band" the string bass plays a basic four beats to
the bar.  However a string bass can also  emphasise the first and third
beats.  Often when using a bow, for example.  A Brass bass can sound
ponderous when trying to play four beats to the bar in an up-tempo number,
so it generally sticks to 1/3.  While I love the sound of a brass bass and
two-beat, I believe the string bass is more versatile in that it can lead
both a 1/3 and  a 4/4 sound in a band.  However I do not wish to re-open the
string bass/brass bass wars!!

If it is any help, for Blue grass bands, audiences generally clap on the
on-beat (1/3)
For jazz bands the instinct is to clap on the off-beat (2/4) if the listener
is truly feeling the rhythm of the band.

Cheers,
Brian (not reallly erudite)Towers,
Hot Five Jazzmakers,  ( A mostly 4 beat band using string bass!)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Harvey" <brian.harvey5@ntlworld.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Two beat or four beat that is the
question......................


> Could any erudite list member please explain to me the difference between
> two and four beat and also suggest how an old 'cloth ears' (i.e. aged non
> musician) should be able to distinguish one from the other?