[Dixielandjazz] What is a 'musician's musician'?

[Patrick Cooke]

>>>Does a musician when he or she listens to another
player approach the performance from a different viewpoint to a
non-musician?"<<<

    You bet!!
    Some years ago, a non-musician asked me, "When you listen to music,do
you just listen to the melody, or do you listen to the whole thing?"  I
couldn't believe anyone could completely ignore the chords, the fills,
obligatos, counter melodies, and all of the things that make up a
performance.  It occured to me there must be zillions of people out there
that just can't comprehend anything but simple ditties.  They simply don't
know what they're missing!
    Pat Cooke

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Farrell" <stridepiano@tesco.net>
To: <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:11 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] What is a 'musician's musician'?


> Jerry Brown raises and interesting question :
>
> "I have often heard Tatum described as a 'musician's musician' which
raises
> a more general point. Does a musician when he or she listens to another
> player approach the performance from a different viewpoint to a non
> musician?"
>
> Obviously I can speak only for myself on this subject. For me the most
> important factor in a jazz musician's performance is that he should
> demonstrate a  complete mastery of his instrument which goes beyond mere
> competence. The tune and the "feeling" are of secondary importance to me -
I
> want to hear if the guy can really handle his axe.
>
> Next on my list of essentials is an outstanding interpretation of a
familiar
> piece of music and attractive, maybe unusual harmonic progressions. Here I
> fundamentally disagree with Jerry's condemnation, he is of the opinion
that
> Tatum's overpowering keyboard technique simply ruined the tunes he played.
> Before I deal with that, let me mention just a few musicians who fit my
> criteria - Bix, who was not a dazzling technician nor did he indulge in
> pyrotechnics, nevertheless he had a way of reassembling a tune in such a
> fashion that made me wonder "Now why didn't I think of that?"
>
> I also admire the great pianists Don Ewell and Marvin Ash for much the
same
> reason. The hugely talented Ralph Sutton played powerful, straight-ahead
> stride and beautiful ballads with interesting, non-standard chord changes.
> He threw in the odd run here and there but generally did not use pianistic
> fireworks in order to impress his audiences, he did not need to.
>
> However Tatum was in a class of his own, towering head and shoulders above
> all the rest. When it came to the physical act of playing piano nobody
else
> stood the ghost of a chance against him. In short, Tatum was - and for my
> money,  still is - the most consummate jazz pianist ever to walk the
planet.
> You want total keyboard mastery? Tatum's your man. Complete harmonic
> understanding? He had that in spades. I know of no other jazz musician
> (except perhaps Charlie Parker) who could play with equal facility in any
> key.
>
> Jerry said that despite a technique not based on brilliance George Lewis
had
> listener appeal. That is undoubtedly true,  however his limited style does
> absolutely nothing for me, I would not cross the street to listen to him.
>
> John Farrell
> stridepiano@tesco.net
> http://homepages.tesco.net/~stridepiano/midifiles.htm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Jazzjerry@aol.com>
> To: <JimDBB@aol.com>; <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] What is a 'musician's musician'?
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 10/7/02 23:25:21, JimDBB@aol.com writes:
> >
> > << But no one else was able to
> > play them with the same flexibility and velocity >>
> >
> > My 'Tatum was crap' remark was intended as an illustration of how an
> argument
> > can be abreviated. But expanding it again I have often heard Tatum
> described
> > as a 'musician's musician' which raises a more general point. Does a
> musician
> > when he or she listens to another player approach the performance from a
> > different viewpoint to a non musician? As a non player who could not
make
> a
> > tuneful note out of a comb and paper the technique of a musician is
fairly
> > incidental. Yes, they have to be able to play the instrument but the
> overall
> > performance including feeling, expression and all those thing which are
> very
> > difficult to describe come into play. A musician on the other hand
simply
> > because they know the technical theory behind the performance cannot
help
> but
> > judge the playing primarily against technical parameters.
> >
> > As an illustration, maybe more OKOM than Tatum (but don't lets dwell on
> > that!), would be the playing of George Lewis. He could be regarded as
> someone
> > who's appeal to his listeners was not based on brilliant technique.
> >
> > Anyone any comments on the general point?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jerry
> > Norwich,
> > U.K.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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