[Dixielandjazz] Working hard at playing cool
JimDBB@aol.com
JimDBB@aol.com
Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:33:39 EDT
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In a message dated 8/10/02 5:52:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
jpettjazz@btinternet.com writes:
> What I think happened, is that by 1940, Ellington had said all there was to
> be said in producing romantic lush rich melodic music. Miller stole the
> basic idea and made more money. All the white big bands basically stole
> black music and made more money out of it than the black innovators. Swing
> commercialised itself.
This is a mistaken idea that remains popular with a particular group. It
isn't just a matter of bad guys, the whites, stealing stuff from the good
guys, the blacks. Everybody in music borrows from everyone else, to a
greater or lesser degree. Yes, 'white' bands borrowed from 'black' bands but
they also borrowed from other 'white' bands and 'black' bands borrowed from
'white' bands and from other 'black' bands.
What was a young guy like Parker to do to make his > mark. How much of that
> music was drug induced?
In my opinion, much of what is unique and oustanding in jazz came about in
states of altered consciousness, which induced by various drugs or some kind
of meditationaly or naturally induced increased state of awareness.
I think it was Witney Balliet > who referred to bop and cool as the quick and
> the dead.
> Herman, Krupa and Kenton all got mixed up with Be bop. Herman's 45 herd was
> arguably the best, retaning a hard driving swing and good swing era solos
> by
> Flip Phillips and Bill Harris. Bop almost messed Krupa up completely with
> its fractured broken beats. But pop music had by the late forties and
> early
> 50s moved on and jazz was no longer hip. Pop singers became king. Then Bill
> Haley, Presley etc - again a watered down variety of black rhythm & Blues.
It is hard for jazz people to realize and recognize that Elvis Presley
was his own man. He himself admitted to being influenced by R & B and also
country and pop music of the day. He also liked Dixieland Jazz and used some
of a few of his recordings.
I had a brilliant guitarist in my group who also did wonderful Elvis. I
won't give his name because he is sensitive about this. I found out about
this inadvertently and I did get him to do some Elvis once in awhile and he
always knocked everybody out...for two reasons, one, it was so unexpected and
two, he was so good at it. He would do out of the way Elvis things and
honestly, he gave me a real and a new appreciation of Elvis. I couldn't
stand Elvis until I saw some films of his live performances and I realized
how powerful he really was. But this guitarist showed me how good and clever
he was and that Elvis was often mocking himself and getting away with it.
JIm Beebe
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 8/10/02 5:52:23 PM Central Daylight Time, jpettjazz@btinternet.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">What I think happened, is that by 1940, Ellington had said all there was to<BR>
be said in producing romantic lush rich melodic music. Miller stole the<BR>
basic idea and made more money. All the white big bands basically stole<BR>
black music and made more money out of it than the black innovators. Swing<BR>
commercialised itself. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> This is a mistaken idea that remains popular with a particular group. It isn't just a matter of bad guys, the whites, stealing stuff from the good guys, the blacks. Everybody in music borrows from everyone else, to a greater or lesser degree. Yes, 'white' bands borrowed from 'black' bands but they also borrowed from other 'white' bands and 'black' bands borrowed from 'white' bands and from other 'black' bands.<BR>
<BR>
What was a young guy like Parker to do to make his</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">mark. How much of that music was drug induced? </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In my opinion, much of what is unique and oustanding in jazz came about in states of altered consciousness, which induced by various drugs or some kind of meditationaly or naturally induced increased state of awareness.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I think it was Witney Balliet</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">who referred to bop and cool as the quick and the dead.<BR>
Herman, Krupa and Kenton all got mixed up with Be bop. Herman's 45 herd was<BR>
arguably the best, retaning a hard driving swing and good swing era solos by<BR>
Flip Phillips and Bill Harris. Bop almost messed Krupa up completely with<BR>
its fractured broken beats. But pop music had by the late forties and early<BR>
50s moved on and jazz was no longer hip. Pop singers became king. Then Bill<BR>
Haley, Presley etc - again a watered down variety of black rhythm & Blues.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
It is hard for jazz people to realize and recognize that Elvis Presley was his own man. He himself admitted to being influenced by R & B and also country and pop music of the day. He also liked Dixieland Jazz and used some of a few of his recordings.<BR>
<BR>
I had a brilliant guitarist in my group who also did wonderful Elvis. I won't give his name because he is sensitive about this. I found out about this inadvertently and I did get him to do some Elvis once in awhile and he always knocked everybody out...for two reasons, one, it was so unexpected and two, he was so good at it. He would do out of the way Elvis things and honestly, he gave me a real and a new appreciation of Elvis. I couldn't stand Elvis until I saw some films of his live performances and I realized how powerful he really was. But this guitarist showed me how good and clever he was and that Elvis was often mocking himself and getting away with it.<BR>
<BR>
JIm Beebe<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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