<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Hello Charles,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
For me to speculate about the situation in N.O. a long time ago, is a bit tricky. I'm just too far away, however your idea makes sence. I was in N.O. twice btw, and just loved it. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I personally think that the opera influence also (partly?) explains Coleman Hawkins extreme wide vibrato. Another factor was of course that it was just the time, that every horn player in jazz played with vibrato. Those fashions change through the times. But
that even accounts for classical music. For classical clarinet, vibrato usually is a no go area. But then I read a book, where it was revealed that in Mozart's time, there had been a famous clarinet solist, who played with lots! Nowadays, at conservatory,
jazz students are trained to play totally with a straight tone. But then they are asked to play Ellington or Glenn Miller for the matter, and it just doesn't sound right. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
So it is also a matter of where and when. Somehow Coleman Hawkins very wide vibrato fits his passionate way of playing, it's just so dramatic at times. Lester Young played with much less, Ben Webster again with more, but that also fitted their way of playing. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
In saxophone playing, the extreme vibrato was allready en vogue, before they invented jazz playing on that instrument. It is allready there in the Six Brown Brothers and Rudy Wiefoeft, but also classical sax players used a lot in the '20's - '30's. The French
classical players still do, btw. Both Hawkins and Webster took quite awhile to get rid of Wiedoefts other fashion, the slap-tongue influence. What makes it even more interesting, is that others, like Trumbauer, Adrian Rollini or for the matter Lester Young,
never seem to have had that problem. Although Tram and Rollini could do it very well, if they wanted. But somehow they could control very well when they did want to play it, or not. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Louis Armstrong was the first in jazz I think, where vibrato was not just an added on device, like something you turn on or off, but he used it to create tension. Like he would start a long tone straight, and add more and more vibrato till it virtually became
a shake. Thát was really new and had a huge influence eventually on many brass players in f. I. Fletcher Henderson's band. Later even classical trumpet players adapted that. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
One of the elements that I appreciated a lot while listening to the CD with your brothers music, was that he knew exactly what kind of sound was expected in a certain style or situation. That was real cool, how he could adept to the situation at hand. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Very kind regards,</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Bert</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Charles Suhor <csuhor@zebra.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 29, 2018 8:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bert<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Dixieland Jazz Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dixielandjazz] Wild Bill Davison</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">Thanks for this really enlightening perspective, Bert! I've always valued improvisation and Louis' trailblazing genius in that area, but I can see how contemporary trumpeters also had instrumentalists like Panico as
models for a variety of reasons. I'm aware of the respect that Louis and others, reed as well as brass players, had for symphonic music, especially in New Orleans where the French Opera House was a huge cultural force, and the Creole players valued technical
skill.
<div class="">I have a theory--no, more like a vague wonderment, about whether the "nanny-goat vibrato" that dominated earliest jazz trumpeters might have been an imitation of operatic male tenors' fast vibrato. Has anyone ever studied or speculated on that?
It seems to have gone rapidly out of fashion after Louis' fiery, natural sound and Bix's more "legit" tone, except for a few like Mutt Carey, and later, first generation players who were brought back to Preservation Hall.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Charlie
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 29, 2018, at 3:16 AM, Bert <<a href="mailto:mister_bertje@hotmail.com" class="">mister_bertje@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Hello Charles,</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Yes, it is quite well possible, since Panico once outplayed Armstrong in a jam session. (Armstrong was the first to admit that)</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
That was without a doubt very early in the 1920's. </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
If you really listen with an open ear, you can hear that Panico had a flawless technique. Armstrong didn't possess that yeat at the time. Esp. listen to the early hot fives, 1925/26 , Armstrong is allready very advanced in his ideas, but his technique is not
always up to what he wants to play yet. </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
And musicians, esp. brass players often are very much impressed with clean technique. Lead trumpet players: "You, as as good as your last high note". </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
It is an obsession, but Armstrong himself mentioned being very much impressed by Panico, and they were lifelong friends. </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Panico also wrote a book, very early: <span class="" style="color:rgb(34,34,34); font-family:sans-serif; font-size:14px; background-color:rgb(255,255,255); display:inline!important">The Novelty Cornetist, which young upcoming musicians just may have studied. </span></div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Sure, both Armstrong and Bix took the jazz solo much further, but that should not necessarily mean that people could not find inspiration in other values that Panico did posses. Also bear in mind that Armstrong (and Hawkins) were very fond of opera records,
and Bix went to concerts of symphony ochestra's, and asked their trumpet player for lessons, since he wanted to improve his technique. But after one lesson the symphony player refused, with the explanation: you are so naturally talented, don't change anything,
which Bix could not understand and made him very sad at the moment. </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Influences and inspiration can be way more complex than what is taught these days. Jazz history classes are so much symplified, that they sometimes nearly become a joke. Of course , there is a general outline, but reality is, that it all was way more complex
than the eye meets at first glance. </div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Very kind regards,</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
Bert</div>
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; display:inline-block; width:1204.40625px">
<span class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; float:none; display:inline!important"></span>
<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class="" style="font-size:11pt"><b class="">F</b></font></div>
<div class="x_BodyFragment" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<font size="2" class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt">
<div class="x_PlainText">> Bill (Davison) was his own man who came up listening to Louis (as 'they' all did), Bix and Louis Panico.<br class="">
<br class="">
Thus is the first time I've seen Louis Panico named in the same sentence with Armstrong and Bix. Can he really have been much of an influence on Wild Bill and his generation? <br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
</span></font></div>
<span class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; float:none; display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; float:none; display:inline!important">To
unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:</span><br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<a href="http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz" class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz</a><br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<span class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; float:none; display:inline!important">Dixielandjazz
mailing list</span><br class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">
<a href="mailto:Dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com" class="" style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px">Dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>