<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 June 2017 at 17:25, Steve Voce <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stevevoce@virginmedia.com" target="_blank">stevevoce@virginmedia.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p>'Trad' was the commercial boom that came during the '50s when you
didn't need much talent to get rich.</p></div></blockquote><div>I know what YOU mean by "trad." And British jazz critics of the day. At its worst, it sounded like banjo with instrumental accompaniment. But there were some fine bands, like your Merseys, or the Alan Elsdon's band I repeatedly heard at the Jazzshows Jazz Club band in 1964. And many many others, But to the general public, even bands like Welsh's and Randall's were "trad." Even a younger musician like Ken refers to them that way.<br></div><div>To confuse the issue, the term is now used in the States as well, referring to the banjo and tuba bands, while the British ones usually had a double bass. Nit-picking and pigeonholing is not taking us anywhere,<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p> It was the age of 'gimmicks'
- bowler hats etc.</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Bowler hats and ridiculous waistcoats was what Acker's band wore, I heard many with no uniform. The "gimmick" came at a later stage - in Poland his band had "normal" attire (if I remember properly - it was over 60 years ago - he wore a black shirt, while the others wore white).<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Chris Barber's1949 band was not trad and was in fact one of his
most interesting. It had Ben Cohen on cornet (there were two
cornets) and a good clarinet player). </p></div></blockquote><div><br>The clarinet player in that band was Alex Revell.<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>Chris didn't compromise, and
although parallel to it, didn't play 'trad'. </p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Be it as it may, he was considered one of the great "Three B's of trad, as reflected by several albums with that banner.<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p>Nor did Humph, of
course. After Humph, Past Halcox was the outstanding trumpeter in
that field. Chris was always an accomplished musician, while the
'trad' fellows tended to learn on the job, as far as they were
able to.</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Perhaps. But Elsdon went on to become one of the major figures of British jazz, as did others. Acker used the ridiculous 18th century outfit to the end, which did not detract from his music. <br></div><div>Cheers<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Steve Voce<br>
</p><div><div class="gmail-h5">
<br>
<div class="gmail-m_8718423528794162330moz-cite-prefix">On 26/06/2017 14:37, Marek Boym wrote:<br>
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<div>Forrie Cairns is not sufficiently well known I have a
Clyde Valley CD, but nevertheless have no real opinion on
Cairns.<br>
</div>
As to Steve's comment re. "Trad" - aren't we pigeonholing too
much? When did "Trad" start? Was the 1949 Barber trad (the
name had not yet been used)? And George Webb?<br>
</div>
Cheers<br>
<div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 26 June 2017 at 01:25, Ken
Mathieson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ken@kenmath.free-online.co.uk" target="_blank">ken@kenmath.free-online.co.uk</a><wbr>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi
All,<br>
I'm not taking sides in the Cy Laurie stand-off, nor
indulging in lists pointless or otherwise, but the
absence of one name from this thread has been
conspicuous: Forrie Cairns. He's retired from
playing now, but still to the fore in Edinburgh,
having spent most of his career in London and
Zurich. His pro career involved playing with the
Clyde Valley Stompers before leading his own
Clansmen until trad jazz slipped off the radar of
most of the British public. He had a spell of
free-lancing around London before moving to
Switzerland, where he was based for many years
working with Bob Wallis as well as the Picadilly
Six. He returned to Scotland about 20 years ago,
settling in Edinburgh and still playing as
forcefully and inventively as ever until his
retirement for health reasons recently.<br>
<br>
Forrie was recognised by Sandy Brown in The McJazz
Manuscripts as giving "...Sandy cause for concern on
the occasions they occupied the same bandstand." And
"...Forrie made him more uncomfortable than anyone
except Tony Coe." And "...given the freewheeling ,
uncommitted atmosphere of Sandy's band Forrie could
have been unbeatable: he was never provided that
climate, and was consequently under-rated." Sandy
described Forrie's playing as being a "fierce
amalgam of a number of New Orleans originals,
notably Ed Hall..." There were certainly traces of
Ed Hall in his sound, but his improvisations always
struck me as unlike anyone else's due to their
unpredictability. He was always a delight to play
with as ideas just bubbled out of him and his
rhythmic attack, swing and intensity were often
fierce, but he could play with great sensitivity
when the material called for it.<br>
<br>
It's a great pity that he's not better represented
on recordings, but you can catch him here along with
some other fine local players on the Scottish scene:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5PVwxmtJ5s" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=-5PVwxmtJ5s</a><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Ken<br>
<br>
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