[Dixielandjazz] Ragtime question

[Dick Baker]

Allow me to amplify Bill's note by modestly quoting myself from the 
"notes to the reader" section of "Index of 3,836 Tune Titles and 
Composers," 7th edition, which I compiled for the late Bob Erdos's 
Stomp Off record label.  You can see the full version of that index, 
with annotated discussions of each title, at 
http://stompoff.dickbaker.org/Stomp%20Off%20Index.pdf.

"Another problem [in whether to name lyricists in the Stomp Off 
index] that became evident as I looked through Audrey Van Dyke's 
extensive collection of early rags is that some early pieces were 
published in two forms, as songs and as instrumentals, sometimes with 
slightly different titles.  They'll often have the same year of 
publication, but according to Tex Wyndham, one would have preceded 
the other by some period, although not always in the same order.  But 
the question, I said, is should we be citing the lyricist's name if 
our recording has no lyrics.

"That depends, said Tex, on whether you're playing the instrumental 
or song version.  Well, instrumental, obviously, I responded:  Nobody sings.

"Wrong answer, it turns out.  The instrumental version would have a 
ragtime format with multiple strains (or at least one extra strain); 
the song version would be the typical verse-chorus form of most 
songs.  You have to listen to the version played and identify it as 
the instrumental or song version as originally published.  In many 
cases, contemporary bands (and even piano soloists, in some cases), 
actually play the song version.  He cited the example of "Honky Tonky 
Town," which was published in instrumental and song versions with 
slightly different titles.  Today's bands all play the song version; 
to the best of his knowledge, only the St. Louis Ragtimers have ever 
recorded the instrumental version.

"This gives us a problem (which I pointed out to Tex); not reading 
music, I don't feel qualified to listen to these recordings and 
identify them as the song or instrumental versions.  Tex suggested we 
do this:  List each such tune by the title & composer we think is 
best known and add a note (like our current alternative title notes 
in brackets), saying something like "Also published in a song version 
with lyrics by Joe Blow."  If the song version title is different, 
we'd have to note that too.  Of course, the reader still doesn't know 
by looking at our list which version is on the Stomp Off recording, 
but at least he knows there are two possibilities.

"That actually won't fatten our list by much.  On my first pass 
through this list I found only eight tunes that I've identified this 
way (Grizzly Bear, Hiawatha, Oh That Beautiful Rag, Railroad Blues, 
Red Wing, Silver Bell, Silver Heels, Temptation Rag, Wild Cherries); 
of course, there are dozens of others published simultaneously in two 
versions that we don't know about, but that can't be helped."

At 02:43 PM 9/8/2020, Bill Haesler wrote:
>>On 8 Sep 2020, at 12:24 PM, philwilking 
>><<mailto:philwilking at cox.net>philwilking at cox.net> in reply to Ron 
>>L'Herault wrote:
>>It is explained in Rawlins' "Tunes of the Twenties" that Botsford 
>>wrote the rag first. Then later, as ragtime faded in popularity, 
>>Berlin put words to two of the strains, left out the third strain, 
>>and published the result as a popular song.
>
>Good morning Phil and Ron.
>The explanation "later, as ragtime faded in popularity" is not 
>supported by Ragtime expert Perfessor Bill Edwards:
>
>"Botsford was very adept at turning out tunes that hooked the 
>listener. This one had lyrics added to it just prior to its initial 
>release as a rag, which were penned by no less than Irving Berlin. 
>The song was introduced in the 1910 Ziegfeld Follies by Fannie Brice 
>and quickly popularized by Sophie Tucker "
>
>And seemingly confirmed by its original joint Copyright.
>
>[]
>
>
>And was published in two formats by Ted Snyder Co.
>
>[]
>[]
>
>
>Kind regards,
>Bill.
>
>

--
---------------------
      Dick Baker
  dick at dickbaker.org
   
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