[Dixielandjazz] Jazz camps, apprenticeships, and learning

[Paul Kurtz Jr]

Charles, I’ll help you get it, as a 65-year-old myself. I have enough music sitting on my computer as I type to last for a few years straight of listening. So, what do I do? I listen to my music in order, put my picks on my phone, use specific examples for trumpet students, listen, listen, and listen. 

As a kid, I could never identify my music without taking a bunch of time and putting Braille labels on things. Even with that, I didn’t know enough about the jazz side, classical side, or any other to make valid and sound judgments. And, I didn’t always have people to drive me to my favorite record store to make picks. 

Now, I hear something on one of my many internet stations, at a concert, or wherever, and I go home and buy it. Most of the time, if I like it, I buy the entire song set assuming there are other things I will like in the same set. (I’m very rarely disappointed.) 

I can listen over and over, move a song forwards and backwards and without risk of what I used to do in making scratches in records in spite of my best efforts not to. So, yes, I can brag about and am extremely blessed by my downloads. 
Paul Kurtz Jacksonville, FL
> On Jun 22, 2017, at 3:35 PM, Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Jim and Augustine— Silly me, I didn’t mention the most obvious and possibly the most often practiced learning site—next to a phonograph. That’s what I did on drums, my bro Don did on reeds, and innumerable others among us did. The main difference between the days of old and now is that then, it wasn’t hard to find other youngsters doing the same so you could eventually form a combo, jam together, play for teen dances, and sit in with older cats. Now, one’s age-alike peers are likely listening to music that’s far removed from jazz ensemble counterpoint and solos. 
> 
> A funny story. Our family in the 40s got an electric record player under pressure from Don, who couldn’t make use of the wind-up Victrola (remember them?) because it gradually slowed down, changing the pitch and making accompaniment impossible. Then, we got an electric phonograph that happened to be a fraction fast, causing him suffer  “playing flat” or “lipping up” the notes (his phrase). Soon, record players were produced on which you could adjust the speed slightly to get the desired pitch. I guess those have disappeared from everyday markets. Also, when we started digging Bird, Konitz, and Max, we’d play the 78s at 33 1/3 to better understand the rapid, complex rhythm figures. 
> 
> Another thing. In general, when we bought records we’d LISTEN to them over and over to digest and enjoy nuances of phrasing, vibrato, rhythm, and the interactions among the players. Same thing once I expanded to enjoy classical music. Over the years I’ve often sat down late at night when the kids were in bed and re-listened to Bach, Stravinsky, Bartok and others. As with jazz, I got to “know the repertoire” and treasure certain music most dearly.  I don’t get it when young folks today brag that they’ve downloaded 1,000 selections and have access to them at any time. Can a person “sample” from a downloaded warehouse of thousands of pieces of music and have a deep experience of the music? I’m partially being judgmental and an old fogey here, but I don’t get it. 
> 
> Charles
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 11:26 AM, Augustine Daniel <ds.augustine at utexas.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Jim & DJML--
>>     I did exactly the same thing. In the dixieland-backwater of the late 1950s in Carson City, Nevada, i used to sit on my bed and play tuba along with the Dukes, the FH5, and Turk Murphy records.  Didn't have any sheet music whatsoever, had never heard the tunes before, so i exercised my brain and ear by figuring out the key and gradually the chord-changes.  I also played along with and eventually was able to copy the few tuba solos.
>>     There were no dixieland bands in Carson City at the time (especially by people my age), and while it was true that Turk Murphy did play there occasionally (and is reputed to have liked Carson City so much that he named his son 'Carson'), i never saw or heard him. Then in Reno i played at the Univeristy of Nevada in all the ensembles they had (including the stage band, with Marv Stamm), and played in a couple of casinos (relief night with Peggy Lee once), there also were no dixieland bands to play in.
>>     So i never actually played in a dixieland band until about 2002 (when i was 60 years old in Austin, Texas), when a friend formed a novice band.  Didn't know how to play along from a leadsheet, so i figured i'd learn by playing substitute tuba in the Austin Banjo Club, which was great (if occasionally frustrating) training.
>>     But i've been playing now professionally in a number of local dixieland bands for about 11 years, slowly learning how to improvise, can play hundreds of tunes without music, and also write and copy dixieland arrangements and leadsheets.
>>     The lesson/moral here is just to keep at it, even if you're all by yourself. As Jim said, play play play and listen listen listen, study the songs, play along with your favorite bands and players.  Try to find other people at your level to play with, and delve into the history of jazz to get a perspective on where you are in it.
>>     Above all, have fun. 
>> 
>>     Dan Augustine
>> ----------------------------
>> On Jun 22, 2017, at 5:22 AM, jim at kashprod.com wrote:
>> 
>> Charles,  thanks for finally changing that original subject title!  No big deal, but it does help to be able to choose what you wish to read.
>> 
>> While the discussion about apprenticeship & jazz camps is interesting, there is nothing like studying daily at home.  And that studying should take in gobs of listening to all the recorded material out there.  Certainly even easier to find than when I was a kid.  I nearly wore out my Dukes' and FH5 collection.  I also had a beloved LP of Santo Pecora who I heard at the Famous Door on Bourbon Street when I was 17 (my one & only night I have ever spent in New Orleans!).
>> 
>> I wasn't "helped" by anyone older, but trained my ear by playing along with my LP's.  I've mentioned many times on this list that the Duke's & FH5 recordings are perfect for ear training as the keys are right for brass, the bass line is predominate & the changes are uncomplicated.  I know, I know.....there are those that won't even mention those two bands, but perhaps the simpler, or uncomplicated format both bands used (if I be permitted to say that!) works very well for the student to follow where they are.
>> 
>> So, by playing along with the bass line you learn to follow the chord changes, then little by little you can mentally block out your instrument in the band & put yourself into their place.  It works, it works!  No camps, no helpers....just play every day (*) & listen, listen, listen.  Then, another big boost is to get a band of kids your own age to put your practice to work for you.
>> 
>> (*) I still play every day, and when I am travelling, always play my mouthpiece each day!  Mouthpieces in your bag will usually get you inspected at the security check in airports, but it's worth it to always have it on you!
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> **----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------**
>> **  Dan Augustine  --  Austin, Texas  --  ds.augustine at mail.utexas.edu
>> **    "There is nothing wrong with sobriety in moderation."  -- John Ciardi
>> **----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------**
>> 
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