[Dixielandjazz] Roy Eldridge followed Louis Armstrong?

[Charles Suhor]

Hello, Jack—

Those are sad stories indeed. I would never defend Miles' rude behaviors or the shabby performances you experienced. Miles was well-known for frequently showing contempt for audiences. Inexcusable. 
I never heard him in person but followed his recordings pretty closely until the 1970  "Bitches Brew” LP (boring to me, but to many a landmark of jazz fusion). That doesn’t diminish the decades in which he defined cool modern jazz, improvised with a unique conception and incredible fluency, and cultivated sidemen who became pacesetters on their instruments—too many to mention here . That’s my view but also the consensus among most who have written at length over the years about post-swing jazz. 
Of course, anyone can choose to reject a genre outright, or totally discount an artists’ output if he’s an s.o.b. or if he changed his style along the way (not that you did these things, Jack). As I see it, those are responses that put needless boundaries on appreciation of an art. 

Charlie

> On Apr 10, 2017, at 9:07 PM, jack wiard <jack_wiard at hotmail.com <mailto:jack_wiard at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Charles, 
> My first hearing of Miles Davis was at the Jazz Workshop in San Francisco in the 1960s. Not liking the music at all but believing one should hear someone at least three times before forming an opinion, I heard M . Davis again a few years later at the BOTH/AND CLUB in San Francisco.  I had a front row seat. Miles was introduced to huge applause.  The rhythm section set up an up tempo  c minor chord  [nothing else, just c minor].  Miles did a long solo, then the rhythm  [bass and  [too loud] drums only, then Miles again.  Tonally, one chord for  the  25 minute length of the song was very ,very boring.  I might add that during much of his solo, Davis faced the wall, so he could hear himself better. That meant the audience got to look at his backside for 25 minutes.  Of course, I liked the tone and flawless execution but for me, on this number, the music element was not evident.  At the end of the performance, the name of the 'song' was not announced, so even if one liked the 'song', you would not know what to ask for in the music store to buy it.  The applause was huge and there was not the slightest hint of a smile. He then walked off for a 30 minute break.
> But wait,theres' more.  In the early 1970s, Davis appeared at the Sydney [Australia] Entertainment Centre [sold out 12,000people] with  a rock band.  Davis  would just blurt out a few notes to establish a rhythm pattern  for the guitars/drums to play  and then he would play for 1-2 minutes in a 10-12  minute  song.  He played 2 x 46 minute sets. Being a masochist, I stayed for all of it but by the end of the 1st set, about one third of the audience had  left  to go home.  Someone at the concert actually yelled out  'PLAY SOME JAZZ'.
> Davis approached a microphone and said  'I DON'T PLAY TO ORDERS'.    That was the only announcement he made all night. Wow, such stage pressence [NOT].. And   that[hand on heart]is a true account of my three encounters with Miles Davis.
>   Cheers   JACK WIARD
> From: Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net <mailto:csuhor at zebra.net>>
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 April 2017 10:22 AM
> To: jack_wiard at hotmail.com <mailto:jack_wiard at hotmail.com>
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Roy Eldridge followed Louis Armstrong?
>  
> Apology accepted, with respect. Re Miles, I lost interest in his playing with the famed “Bitches’ Brew” rock/jazz synthesis, though I believe his playing until then was often brilliant, sometimes transporting. I don’t relate at all to the post-Coltrane improvisers for whom formlessness is a stimulus. Random invention is sometimes fun to watch on site—they’re trying their luck in real time. But without physical presence, there’s not even the wonderment of  unfolding-in-the-moment. Why listen to something that has become a non-event? That’s my hobby horse, time to dismount.
> 
> Charlie
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 6:31 PM, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com <mailto:marekboym at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry.  I didn't mean to be offensive.
>> I made the journey the other way round: I started listening to everything when in my teens. including rock and roll, which in my native Poland (and later here in Israel) was considered jazz, and became greatly disappointed by modernists, in particular by the then greatest hero, Miles Davis, before I ever heard Wild Bill Davison.  I had known the Brubecks ("Blue Rondo a la Turk," for example) and the MJQ records by heart before I ever heard ABOUT Wild Bill.  Gradually I lost all interest in their cool, to my ear - lifeless - music.  By the mid 1960's  I dropped most "modern" jazz and concentrated on jazz and swing.  I cannot see the connection between Miles Davis and jazz.  nothing wrong in liking Miles Davis - it just does not sound like jazz.  Eddie Condon had something to say on the subject: "A terrible thing has happened to jazz: it became respectable."  That must be the reason while so many musicians want their music classified as jazz.  I wish I could claim this is an original idea, but the explanation comes from Hughes Panassie's "The Unreal Jazz."
>> I apologize again,
>> Marek
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 April 2017 at 00:42, Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net <mailto:csuhor at zebra.net>> wrote:
>> Marek, I came by my fandom honestly. Born and raised in New Orleans; before my teens, enchanted (still am) by Bunk, Louis, Bechet, and others. Moved along, without burning the bridges of my love for early jazz, to enjoying and playing drums in many styles. Gigged with big band and modern jazz groups on some weekends, on others with Armand Hug, Chink Martin, Paul Crawford, etc. But from inside your bubble, I’m not a jazz fan. You’re entitled to your opinion, man, but that’s an insult.
>> 
>> Charlie
>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com <mailto:marekboym at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> some of us do not consider Miles Davis followers jazz fans, which makes the preceding part of this post irrelevant.

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