[Dixielandjazz] Jazz Standards, 'modern" and "free form"

[Marek Boym]

I must have already mentioned it on the list, but it is relevant to the
subject of "modern" and "free form."
I, like Pat, have encountered prople who said they didn't like jazz, but
then said that they liked dixieland.  They didn't even know it was jazz!
To them, jazz was all that noisy, squeaky stuff.
I didn't see "Round Midnight," even though I have recorded it off the
telly, because I could not withstand the "music" "played" by Dexter Gordon
for longer than five minutes.  Were that my introduction to jazz, I
probably would have bee among the ranks of jazz haters.  And mind you,
although my introducion to jazz was swing (actually - semi-jazz swing), I
knew all the Modern Jazz Quartet and Brubeck LPs by heart before I heard
even the name of Wild Bill Davison.  However, I found those increasingly
boring with listening, and I could not take Miles Davis from the very
beginning.  Unlike Pat, I confess often liking Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie
Parker, but in most cases I cannot listen thereto after a GOOD dixieland or
swing record.
Cheers

On 19 October 2014 13:32, Patrick Ladd <patrickjladd at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi again.  One of the spin off problems is that the people who design
> record labels have very little idea what `jazz` is and all this `free
> jazz``avante garde` etc gets put on the market labelled as `Jazz`. The
> buying public often are misled and the next thing we hear is `I don`t like
> jazz`. i have a friend who expresses surprise every time I say I like Jazz
> and says `What! that awful row` and goes off into a frantic ,   simulated
> Dizzy solo. He knows no better. He thinks that is jazz. I don`t  and would
> not walk up the street to hear it. But can I persuade him to come to my
> local jazz club.Not a hope. He is convinced that the terrible squeaky  full
> speed technically accomplished trumpet noise is `jazz` because he has seen
> it so described .
> If I see a record label stating `New Jazz or Modern Jazz I know enough to
> avoid it. Someone seeking enlightenment sees the word `jazz` and think that
> what they hear is `Jazz.
> What we really really need to describe that sort of music is something
> which does not involve the word `jazz` at all.  Pat`
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Charles Suhor
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:13 PM
> To: Patrick Ladd
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Jazz Standards & more
>
> Yes, Pat, up to a point, modern jazz is a "niche" music with a specialized
> listening audience, and I think most musicians realize this. The more
> complex, abstract, and experimental the music gets, the narrower the
> audience. Our unpublicized free form group was playing for each other in a
> bookstore, with maybe 3 or 4 drop-in listeners.
> The modern jazz audience grows, sadly, when diluted as "smooth jazz" or
> dressed up somehow like Kenny G. (Go figure.) Some contemporary vocalists
> sell what I'd call  good jazz--Diana Kral, Harry Connick, Michael Buble.
> Also, fine players like the Marsalis crew have gained so much fame that it
> has become socially correct for non-jazz listeners to go to their concerts,
> much like a large chunk of the audiences for classical music (even far-out,
> modern classics!) It's complicated. That's what makes it fun.
>
> Charlie Suhor
>
> On Oct 15, 2014, at 6:16 AM, Patrick Ladd wrote:
>
>
>> Surely this is part o the problem with avant garde stuff in all its
>> variations. Does it in fact engage the audience, who we are paid to
>> entertain, in the same way as our `jazz standards`?. Does a head nod in
>> time to the music?. Does a foot tap?. Does the audience feel impelled
>> (heaven forfend) to get up and dance?
>> If some musicians want to play `modern jazz` ( a very loose grouping) it
>> seems to me that it is only really interesting to someone with a fairly
>> advanced musical knowledge/appreciation. In fact those who get most out of
>> it are the players. Thats fine, Why should we not entertain ourselves, but
>> is it really entertaining to the general audience.  No wonder we used to go
>> out and beat up `dirty boppers` with their silly berets and  their little
>> mustaches. (We didn`t really but it makes a good story)
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Kashishian
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:48 AM
>> To: Pat Ladd
>> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
>> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Jazz Standards & more
>>
>>
>> Charlie wrote:
>>
>>> And after all that (speaking about a type of free jazz), it was great to
>>> go
>>>
>> home and hear a few tracks of the Bobcats or Sonny Rollins.
>>
>> I used to feel the same in during the whole year of 1992 when I worked on
>> a
>> project of 22 CD's of Contemporary music (editing/assembling/mastering).
>> I
>> would go out at nights for my jazz gigs & feel "back at home".   :>
>>
>> Charlie also wrote:
>>
>>> The thing about such performances (and most avant garde jazz, to me) is
>>>
>> that the enjoyment is strictly in being there when the living creative
>> event
>> is unfolding.
>>
>> But, that is what we all get during a performance of our own kind of
>> music,
>> is it not?  The interreaction between musicians in the ensemble and during
>> solos (between the soloist & the rhythm section) is a living creation even
>> if the song is based on a standard setup.  If that creativity is not kept
>> alive in a band, then it becomes boring for both the band & the audience,
>> and just becomes "another gig".
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
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