[Dixielandjazz] Free Form Music

[Steve Voce]

Al Cohn was asked if he listened to free form jazz. "No, I don't," he replied, "and I don't read books written by people who can't spell."

Steve Voce

Sent from my iPad

> On 18 Oct 2014, at 20:27, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The "free form" discussion reminds of a letter to the editor of the "Down
> Beat," probbly some time in the 1960's: "Free jazz?  Avant garde?  We
> played like that thirty years ago, but then we called it 'tuning up!'"
> Cheers
> 
>> On 18 October 2014 20:53, Charles Suhor <csuhor at zebra.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Your last paragraph says so much, Ken. I do think, though, that free form
>> performers are generally less interested in willfully denying structure
>> than letting their intuitions flow and, basically, seeing what structures
>> might emerge if they aren't grounded in traditional forms. Jazz players,
>> even when they don't make use of a song structure, make use of the contours
>> of jazz improvisation, jazz and blues inflections, and other jazz
>> components. Non-jazz free form music usually sounds comparatively bare and
>> to me, most of it gets boring pretty fast on recordings. A film should
>> carry more of a sense of the act-of-creating, but I've found that what
>> keeps me with the moment is a live performance where one's being there is
>> an act of respect and commitment to the human beings who are breathing the
>> same air as they try their luck at inventing...something. That can be
>> communal and exciting, even when their efforts don't add up to interesting
>> listening.
>> 
>> I've long enjoyed modern jazz when the group starts out with a standard
>> tune, then the soloists gradually stretch out, keeping a "sense" of the
>> song source while the chords and bars move into the badlands. Again, live
>> is better for me. In the 80s I heard McCoy Tyner's trio in Chicago taking
>> "I Got Rhythm" into almost mystically lovely places. In New York, a group
>> led by a fine bassist/vocalist (forgot his name) with Marvin Stamm on
>> trumpet and Terry Clark on drums was moving into layers and more layers of
>> complex rhythms. Finally the bassist hollered, "WHERE'S ONE?" I fell out
>> laughing--in delight, not scorn. There was something about their being
>> "lost" that was liberating, and when they moved back into good old 4/4, the
>> resolution was very satisfying.
>> 
>> Charlie
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2014, at 6:34 PM, Ken Mathieson wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> 
>>> I was once asked by BBC to contribute a review to an Arts radio
>> programme of a gallery exhibition featuring a movie of free-form jazz by a
>> group led by trombonist (not clarinettist) George Lewis. The experience in
>> the gallery was interesting: The film of the band performance had been shot
>> from both behind and in front and the two films were projected
>> simultaneously on to opposite sides of a screen which was suspended from
>> the ceiling in the middle of the space. The viewers could walk round the
>> screen and see the front and rear views while listening to the soundtrack.
>>> 
>>> The music was also pretty interesting: There was no thematic material
>> and solos and ensembles were completely random with little or no melodic or
>> harmonic reference. Pieces just began randomly and development, while
>> organic, was entirely unstructured. I like to listen to music of all kinds,
>> but I found it pretty boring. There appeared to be only two tempos:
>> becalmed and frantic 300mph. The most interesting thing for me were the
>> drum solos. here was a guy playing a percussion instrument with
>> non-specific pitches and he was the only one to play melodically. Overall I
>> was unimpressed by the music and felt that, in the pursuit of musical
>> freedom, the horn players and bassist had painted themselves into a corner
>> where melody, harmony and rhythm didn't exist in any coherent or sustained
>> way. The drummer seemed to be the only player with coherent musical ideas.
>>> 
>>> I have to say that the music in the film was much less accessible and
>> structured than the music of the early Ornette Coleman, which I liked when
>> it first came on the scene. It struck me back then that Ornette's music had
>> similarities to New Orleans jazz, with its cheerful, if unpredictable,
>> themes, its collective improvisation, its jaunty rhythms (thanks to Billy
>> Higgins and Ed Blackwell for that) and above all for its joyous optimism.
>> Maybe, as an arranger I'm biased, but I find well-structured music more
>> satisfying than anything else. In jazz, it's not just the great arrangers
>> who define these structures; the great soloists throughout jazz history
>> have all had a highly developed and often intuitive sense of structure
>> which was deployed in building solos. On the other hand, the wilful denial
>> of structure in most "free-form" jazz seems pointless and self-defeating.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Ken
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