[Dixielandjazz] FIXIELAND

[ROBERT R. CALDER]

You can know within limits what terms like Dixieland mean in respect of their history, and know when they are WRONG and not merely inaccurate or off the centre of the target. Actually knowing the history of usages of words for styles of jazz is useful on the way to understanding history and possibility of imaginative creation.
If however you insist on standard definitions, after the fashion of too many employees of university departments of philosophy, you will wind up talking among yourself (sic) and becoming a caricature laying down pseudo-law. I can see no reason to abstain from calling some examples of music both dixieland and trad/ traditional jazz,  Dixieland is also a word much cheapened and given associations with trivial and slight jollities -- from having been slapped about by ignorant hack journalists. The very last people to pay any attention  even to considerations of accuracy, hacks will ignore efforts at  precision of definition.  Tell the paying peasant what it wants to hear, says well paid of  Little Conscience on the Make. Help him sustain delusions of omniscience, and preach at him only to foster his delusion that he is conscientious ....


Musicians need tact. And patience. If you insist on precise use of various terms, take blood pressure medicine with it,

Robert R. Calder 


MUSICIAN,

Do not as far as possible offend 
the paying client, treat him as a friend 
would treat another friend and humour him, 
to forfeit fees needlessly is dim; 

and you can play what he both asks and pays for 
unless of course that means playing the score 
or roles hack ladies of the night perform
satisfying in and out of uniform ...  etc....






>________________________________
> From: "dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com" <dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com>
>To: serapion at btinternet.com 
>Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2014, 15:41
>Subject: Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 134, Issue 10
> 
>
>Send Dixielandjazz mailing list submissions to
>    dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>    dixielandjazz-owner at ml.islandnet.com
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Dixielandjazz digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Dixieland v. Trad Jazz (Dixiejazzdata)
>   2. Re: Dixieland v. Trad Jazz (Dixiejazzdata)
>   3. Re: Dixieland v. Trad Jazz (Dixiejazzdata)
>   4. Re: uniforms (Dixiejazzdata)
>   5. Re: Dixieland v. Trad Jazz (Dixiejazzdata)
>   6. Re: uniforms (Marek Boym)
>   7. Re: uniforms (Dingo)
>   8. dressing up (Jim Kashishian)
>   9. Re: dressing up (Marek Boym)
>  10. Re: dressing up (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 02:10:01 -0500 (EST)
>From: Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>To: jim.allen at longhornband.net
>Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>Message-ID: <8D0F37D15A13918-1794-116B6 at webmail-vm037.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Louis was a Professional and played to the market he had to play to to get gigs,
>if they wanted Dixieland he  said he was Dixieland, and if they wanted Traditional Jazz He was Traditional Jazz :))  
>We have done the same for 24 great years and have no problem with it.  You can Call us anything you want  except, Late for Dinner and to play cheap.
>
>
>Professional Musicians play whatever the Paying Client wants, take the money and earns a decent living.
>we can massage our egos and play anything we want for free in our own jam sessions.
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>Tom Wiggins
>Saint Gabriel's, Celestial Brass Band
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Allen <jim.allen at longhornband.net>
>To: B.B. Buffington <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 7:11 pm
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>
>
>The conversation took me by surprise.  I didn't want to seem as dumb as I
>look!  Maybe there is something I have been missing!
>
>"A Rose by any other name....." and all that!
>
>That will be my reply next week.... "If it was good enough for Louis
>Armstrong, it's good enough for me."  Pete Fountain, too!
>
>
>On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 8:10 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com>wrote:
>
>> some players tell me they think 'Dixieland' sounds hokey, like it
>> belongs in Disneyland or something, or that it doesn't mention Chicago
>> or NYC, but I say Louis Armstrong called it Dixieland, and that's good
>> enough for me.  Labels are only for the label marketing reps to banter
>> about anyway ;)
>>
>> On 2/7/14, Jim O'Briant <jobriant at garlic.com> wrote:
>> > Jim Allen wrote:
>> >
>> > Subject: Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>> >
>> >> What constitutes Dixieland as opposed or contrasted to
>> >> Trad jazz, if there is a difference?
>> >
>> > According to stories I've heard, Turk Murphy always said he played
>> > "Traditional Jazz" rather than "Dixieland Jazz" because he could get more
>> > money if he said it was "Traditional Jazz."
>> >
>> >
>> > Jim O'Briant
>> > Gilroy, CA
>> > Tuba & Leader, The Zinfandel Stompers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> > Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>> >
>> > http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
>> *eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>_______________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing 
>list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 02:25:12 -0500 (EST)
>From: Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>To: jobriant at garlic.com
>Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>Message-ID: <8D0F37F34774998-1794-116FD at webmail-vm037.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Bob you are entitled to your opinion. but many of us  who play the music disagree especially with your simplicity description.
>
>
>It is some our opinions the difference between Black American Traditional Creation of the music and White interpretations of it.
>
>
>The Original Dixieland Jazz Band did not invent Traditional Jazz they were simply the First Band allowed to record it by a White Label
>that would not even consider recording a Black band at that time in history.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>
>Tom Wiggins
>and da boys in da band
>Saint Gabriels Celestial Brass Band
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim O'Briant <jobriant at garlic.com>
>To: B.B. Buffington <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 7:07 am
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>
>
>Bob Brodsky wrote:
>
>> I thought that I had made the difference pretty clear 
>> in my book, "The World in a Jug" (amazon.com/books 
>> or Kindle). Dixieland = 2 beat; N.O. or Trad = 4 beat. 
>> That's the simplest difference. ...
>
>There are a lot of performing musicians and band leaders who wouldn't accept
>that definition. In nearly every band I've played with (I play tuba), the
>leader has called the band a "Traditional Jazz" band -- and has insisted on
>2-beat bass. And as others have pointed out, Louis Armstrong always said he
>played Dixieland, but an awful lot of his bands had a string bass player who
>played 4-beat all the time.
>
>> The subtle difference in my mind is that Dixieland is fun, 
>> rollicking music, while trad is more serious and mental.
>
>I agree with the connotation of "Dixieland = Fun," bringing up visions of
>striped vests, straw "skimmer" hats, and in the USA, pizza parlors and beer
>and sing-alongs. I disagree with your assertion that "Traditional Jazz" is
>"serious and mental" rather than "fun."
>
>Perhaps not everyone has read your book, and perhaps some who have may not
>accept every word as gospel.
>
>When people ask me the difference, I just say that they're basically two
>names for the same general style of music -- pre-big-band-era jazz, played
>by small bands of about 5 - 9 musicians. If they want more, I add that
>"Dixieland" has that "fun" and "light-hearted" connotation that we agree on,
>but that it's a word that has slipped out of favor in more recent years, and
>that "Traditional Jazz" is the current term of choice for many.
>
>Jim O'Briant
>Gilroy, CA
>Tuba & Leader, The Zinfandel Stompers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing 
>list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 02:33:09 -0500 (EST)
>From: Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>To: budtuba at gmail.com
>Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>Message-ID: <8D0F380506D70B8-1794-11723 at webmail-vm037.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Sums it up pretty well Roy,  hence we agreed to simply call it OKOM :)) 
>
>
>I say if It feels good and sound s good and the audience you are playing to like it go for it. 
>Especially if they hire you back and others hire you from the gig :))
>
>
>It has worked very well for us for 24 years now.
>
>Tom Wiggins
>Saint Gabriel's Celestial Brass Band
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Roy Taylor <budtuba at gmail.com>
>To: B.B. Buffington <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 8:25 am
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>
>
>Dixieland vs Traditional Jazz (or Jass)
>
>Years ago, in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, Dixieland bands were prolific all
>over the United States and Canada.  This style was a tour de force of
>blistering tempos and complex front line interaction and solos.  At the
>same time there were bands often referring to themselves and their
>followings as "moldy figs" because they concentrated on the earliest styles
>of bands with tempos matching the 78 rpm records they learned the songs
>from.  If a band had clever musicians who could transcribe the records,
>THAT was the source of their arrangements.  Dixieland bands tended to  take
>their style into later songs and even pop music of the day using fake books
>as it was released.  These fake books were sold on the music black
>market..  They also learned the tunes from each other in pickup gigs and
>they expected the musicians to develop a "good ear" to recognize chord
>progressions and learn the "evergreens" as the repertory developed.
>
>Turk Murphy was the epitome of revival bands and often collected by Trad
>bands as a goal of presentation.  He demanded his musicians have good ears,
>but once they created a head arrangement they liked, tended to play it the
>same way every time.  Other bands, such as the Boll Weevils, the Queen City
>JB (of Cinncinnati AND Denver), Happy Jazz Band of San Antonio (Cullum),
>the New Black Eagle Band of Boston, became the standards of traditional
>jazz that you can find and study to understand Trad Jazz.  Dixieland bands
>tended to follow the bands recorded on Commodore records by Wild Bill
>Davison, Eddie Condon, and other commercial bands in New York City and
>Chicago.  Jack Mahue's Salt City bands also come to mind.  New Orleans
>bands were very traditional incorporated blues and even folk songs and
>hymns, and trips there were memorable events in trad musicians experience.
>Check out the Hall Brothers and Bill Evans bands as NO influenced.   There
>was no hip hop or fusion bands in New Orleans at that time to confuse the
>listener as to its identification.  They were mainly old black musicians
>and some white musicians who learned at their heels (such as Harry Connick,
>Jr).
>
>As the music went further in the 1980s on, the lines between Trad Jazz and
>Dixieland became blurred.  Our band has therefore billed itself as
>Traditional Dixieland Jazz.  Audiences respond to faster tempos, but we
>just don't reach the tempos typical of the older Dixieland bands.  I hope
>that gives some more insight into the differences.
>
>
>On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Jim Allen <jim.allen at longhornband.net>wrote:
>
>> I had occasion to get in a conversation with another community bandsman
>> recently after he overheard me mentioning something about Dixieland.
>>
>> He wanted to know if I was really into Dixieland or more trad jazz, Turk
>> Murphy,  a style he mentioned, etc.
>>
>> Before this I had considered these terms virtual synonyms, never worried
>> about any difference.  A google search turns up discussion but no clear
>> demarcation, to me anyway.
>>
>> Is there?  What constitutes Dixieland as opposed or contrasted to Trad
>> jazz, if there is a difference?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Jim Allen
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Roy (Bud) Taylor
>Smugtown Stompers Jazz Band
>Rochester, New York
>Traditional Jazz since 1958
>"we ain't just whistling dixie!"
>_______________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing 
>list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 02:37:18 -0500 (EST)
>From: Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>To: pj.ladd at btinternet.com
>Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] uniforms
>Message-ID: <8D0F380E50D4AB8-1794-11738 at webmail-vm037.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Indeed Pat:
>
>
>I subscribe to the theory that the Band should try to out dress their audience  if possible,
>The Willie Nelson outlaw cowboy look was cool for the biker crowd , but  most folks being asked to pay a cover charge to see and hear a band wants them to look successful.
>
>
>Dress for Success:  and when a band dresses up they feel better and sometimes even sound better. :))
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>Tom Wiggins
>and da boys with many uniforms
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pat Ladd <pj.ladd at btinternet.com>
>To: B.B. Buffington <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 8:50 am
>Subject: [Dixielandjazz] uniforms
>
>
>and wearing our striped vests!  >
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>If it was good enough for Acker, Dukes etc.
>
>How can you call yourself a band unless you have  some degree of conformity A 
>`band` in the wider sense is a group with a single purpose.
>It is  presentation even if it is only dark trousers and white shirts. It gives 
>an immediate cohesiveness.
>I always supplied my band with sweat shirts with a logo on the front. This 
>caused  a degree of difficulty when we had `quartet` `trio` etc in our 
>title.
>This I cured by becoming `Pat Ladds Elastic Band`.  that suited whatever size 
>group I put out.
>These mobs who wander on stage in different degrees of scruffiness look as 
>though they might have just met.
>
>Well said Jim. These artificial divisions drive me nuts. The audience don`t 
>care as long as they are entertained and we have been unable to define the 
>differences on this list after years of trying.
>
>Cheers
>
>Pat 
>_______________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing 
>list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 02:41:44 -0500 (EST)
>From: Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>To: marekboym at gmail.com
>Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>Message-ID: <8D0F38183056A98-1794-11751 at webmail-vm037.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Jazz by any other name is Still Jazz if you like and appreciate JAZZ  it does come in many styles and forms and is always changing.    Go with it.  Some you will like and some you will not no big deal.  If ya don;t like it turn it off :))
>
>
>Jazz Is....   it really is that simple.
>
>
>Tom Wiggins
>Saint Gabriel's Celestial Brass Band
>who will Play it any way you want to hear it for Good Money :))
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
>To: B.B. Buffington <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 9:24 am
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Dixieland v. Trad Jazz
>
>
>The way I remember, in the States it was "Dixieland," "Traditional" or "New
>Orleans," whereas the term "Trad" was reserved for the British revival.  A
>"trad" band typically had a double bass rather than brass bass (there were
>exceptions), a piano (even though, because of the fame and quality of
>Barber, typical British trad band is NOT expected to have a piano) and a
>banjo. v Actually, the lesser ones sometimes sound like banjos with
>instrumental accompaniment.
>There wer exceptions.  Freddy Randall's and Alex Welsh's bands were
>considered "Dixieland," and played more Chicago-oriented music.  Even after
>the personnel and stylistic changes (after John Barnes and later Roy
>Williams replaced ARchie Semple and Roy Crimmins, respectively, givin the
>band a different character), I was still often referred to as "Dixieland"
>rather than "trad" band (trad it never was, but then it had already become
>much more what in the UK was referred to as "mainstream," and in the States
>- "swing."
>
>I personally believe that the distinction is quite meaningless.
>Cheers
>
>
>On 8 February 2014 17:53, Roy Taylor <budtuba at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dixieland vs Traditional Jazz (or Jass)
>>
>> Years ago, in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, Dixieland bands were prolific all
>> over the United States and Canada.  This style was a tour de force of
>> blistering tempos and complex front line interaction and solos.  At the
>> same time there were bands often referring to themselves and their
>> followings as "moldy figs" because they concentrated on the earliest styles
>> of bands with tempos matching the 78 rpm records they learned the songs
>> from.  If a band had clever musicians who could transcribe the records,
>> THAT was the source of their arrangements.  Dixieland bands tended to  take
>> their style into later songs and even pop music of the day using fake books
>> as it was released.  These fake books were sold on the music black
>> market..  They also learned the tunes from each other in pickup gigs and
>> they expected the musicians to develop a "good ear" to recognize chord
>> progressions and learn the "evergreens" as the repertory developed.
>>
>> Turk Murphy was the epitome of revival bands and often collected by Trad
>> bands as a goal of presentation.  He demanded his musicians have good ears,
>> but once they created a head arrangement they liked, tended to play it the
>> same way every time.  Other bands, such as the Boll Weevils, the Queen City
>> JB (of Cinncinnati AND Denver), Happy Jazz Band of San Antonio (Cullum),
>> the New Black Eagle Band of Boston, became the standards of traditional
>> jazz that you can find and study to understand Trad Jazz.  Dixieland bands
>> tended to follow the bands recorded on Commodore records by Wild Bill
>> Davison, Eddie Condon, and other commercial bands in New York City and
>> Chicago.  Jack Mahue's Salt City bands also come to mind.  New Orleans
>> bands were very traditional incorporated blues and even folk songs and
>> hymns, and trips there were memorable events in trad musicians experience.
>> Check out the Hall Brothers and Bill Evans bands as NO influenced.   There
>> was no hip hop or fusion bands in New Orleans at that time to confuse the
>> listener as to its identification.  They were mainly old black musicians
>> and some white musicians who learned at their heels (such as Harry Connick,
>> Jr).
>>
>> As the music went further in the 1980s on, the lines between Trad Jazz and
>> Dixieland became blurred.  Our band has therefore billed itself as
>> Traditional Dixieland Jazz.  Audiences respond to faster tempos, but we
>> just don't reach the tempos typical of the older Dixieland bands.  I hope
>> that gives some more insight into the differences.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Jim Allen <jim.allen at longhornband.net
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > I had occasion to get in a conversation with another community bandsman
>> > recently after he overheard me mentioning something about Dixieland.
>> >
>> > He wanted to know if I was really into Dixieland or more trad jazz, Turk
>> > Murphy,  a style he mentioned, etc.
>> >
>> > Before this I had considered these terms virtual synonyms, never worried
>> > about any difference.  A google search turns up discussion but no clear
>> > demarcation, to me anyway.
>> >
>> > Is there?  What constitutes Dixieland as opposed or contrasted to Trad
>> > jazz, if there is a difference?
>> >
>> > Best
>> >
>> > Jim Allen
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> > Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>> >
>> > http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roy (Bud) Taylor
>> Smugtown Stompers Jazz Band
>> Rochester, New York
>> Traditional Jazz since 1958
>> "we ain't just whistling dixie!"
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>_______________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing 
>list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 11:56:54 +0200
>From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
>To: Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] uniforms
>Message-ID:
>    <CABGvO8A8SQ1Xk0mV3jDzQYYweR_sFB0QEJokwzR8mSpbDEQdiw at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>How many of you have read Humph's "I Play as I Please?"  A hilarious book,
>well worth reading.
>In his book Humph mentioned that, when the band becamo pro and appeared in
>suits, one person said something like (quoting from memory) "I'm going home
>and sit with my records!", he was so disgusted with the uniformed
>appearance of the musicians.
>When I saw Count Basie in Nice, he, certainly a successful professional,
>played wearing shorts and a skipper's hat.
>It takes all kinds
>
>
>On 9 February 2014 09:37, Dixiejazzdata <dixiejazzdata at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Indeed Pat:
>>
>>
>> I subscribe to the theory that the Band should try to out dress their
>> audience  if possible,
>> The Willie Nelson outlaw cowboy look was cool for the biker crowd , but
>>  most folks being asked to pay a cover charge to see and hear a band wants
>> them to look successful.
>>
>>
>> Dress for Success:  and when a band dresses up they feel better and
>> sometimes even sound better. :))
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Tom Wiggins
>> and da boys with many uniforms
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pat Ladd <pj.ladd at btinternet.com>
>> To: B.B. Buffington <dixiejazzdata at aol.com>
>> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>> Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 8:50 am
>> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] uniforms
>>
>>
>> and wearing our striped vests!  >
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> If it was good enough for Acker, Dukes etc.
>>
>> How can you call yourself a band unless you have  some degree of
>> conformity A
>> `band` in the wider sense is a group with a single purpose.
>> It is  presentation even if it is only dark trousers and white shirts. It
>> gives
>> an immediate cohesiveness.
>>  I always supplied my band with sweat shirts with a logo on the front. This
>> caused  a degree of difficulty when we had `quartet` `trio` etc in our
>> title.
>> This I cured by becoming `Pat Ladds Elastic Band`.  that suited whatever
>> size
>> group I put out.
>> These mobs who wander on stage in different degrees of scruffiness look as
>> though they might have just met.
>>
>> Well said Jim. These artificial divisions drive me nuts. The audience don`t
>> care as long as they are entertained and we have been unable to define the
>> differences on this list after years of trying.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pat
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing
>> list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 10:31:08 -0000
>From: "Dingo" <roadie at btinternet.com>
>To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] uniforms
>Message-ID: <3DC17B4CEC13448CA745130176230C7B at DINGOPC>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Pat Ladd
>
>>These mobs who wander on stage in different degrees of scruffiness........
>
>That just about sums up the Rimington Band circa 1979/80 during my time with
>them but, as I recall, it didn't effect the band's ability to play some good 
>jazz nor bother our audiences.
>~~
>John D
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 13:18:23 +0100
>From: "Jim Kashishian" <jim at kashprod.com>
>To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Subject: [Dixielandjazz] dressing up
>Message-ID: <1F967AFF8C024C078AB8B702E9882F24 at JIM>
>Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>
>I knew what I was doing when I introduced the "dressing up" theme here!   :>
>I was pretty sure it would open up a can of worms!  
>
>I think, though, that everyone agrees that there is a place for practically
>everything.  We dress cleanly but normally for club gigs...everyone in what
>they want.  A concert hall calls for dark suits, again each to his own.  A
>party, the vests!  They're not striped, rather just multicolored.  They were
>a gift from a whiskey company, and we put our own band patch over the brand
>name on the chest.
>
>The fact that Count Basie was seen on stage in shorts has little to do with
>us "normal" folks.  When you're that big, you can come on stage however you
>like.  The audience is already there because of who you are.  If you're a
>normal type of talent, then you usually have to win your audience.  The
>audience sees you even before they hear you, so the first impression is
>important.
>
>Anyway, this is sort of preaching to the already converted.  Everyone on
>this list that performs will already know what works for their band....
>
>Jim
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 16:03:53 +0200
>From: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
>To: Jim Kashishian <jim at kashprod.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] dressing up
>Message-ID:
>    <CABGvO8Bw6Ry5Srcj5z8mAxicCQJxSO-CKuSrBVDTDEs6-3K0cQ at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>> The fact that Count Basie was seen on stage in shorts has little to do with
>> us "normal" folks.  When you're that big, you can come on stage however you
>> like.  The audience is already there because of who you are.
>
>
>It was a jazz festival, not a Basie concert (I believe that for concerts in
>halls he dressed more officially), and  most musicians were casually
>dressed.  There were exceptions - Bud Freeman was very neat, and the
>Wallace Davenport Band appeared in dark blue suits.
>
>
>
>>  If you're a
>> normal type of talent, then you usually have to win your audience.  The
>> audience sees you even before they hear you, so the first impression is
>> important.
>>
>
>At verious festivals I have seen musicians variously dressed, and I do not
>recall an instance when music was judged on the basis of the apprel, not
>EVEN striped jackets and trousers or ridiculuos waistcoats and derby hats.
>I, as you know, am on the audience side.  Planning to attend the Bohem
>festival organized by listmate Tamas.
>
>Cheers
>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 10:39:29 -0500
>From: Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym at teledyn.com>
>To: Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com>
>Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] dressing up
>Message-ID:
>    <CAE=O9tZ+SPg6Vw-2Xt_QjH1Y7au5vUx3Ro_U2qsnj97MFuxZpw at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>In the Journal of Music last year they reported a study where
>professional adjudicators were asked to predict the awards from
>recordings of music festival participants.  One group was given only
>audio recordings, another was given video, and a third group was given
>only silent video.  Overwhelmingly, the adjudicators in the video
>groups were more accurate in matching what the participants actually
>scored at the festivals, and surprisingly there was no difference in
>accuracy between the video and the silent video judgements.
>
>Sun Ra said that the costumes and the set were part of the music too,
>likely the body language too, and the research bears this out: human
>beings are largely visually oriented (even my blind friend uses visual
>metaphors all the time) with what we see drastically tainting what we
>thought we heard.
>
>When the bandsmen asked Monk what they should wear, he replied, "Sharp
>as possible"
>
>On 2/9/14, Marek Boym <marekboym at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The fact that Count Basie was seen on stage in shorts has little to do
>>> with
>>> us "normal" folks.  When you're that big, you can come on stage however
>>> you
>>> like.  The audience is already there because of who you are.
>>
>>
>> It was a jazz festival, not a Basie concert (I believe that for concerts in
>> halls he dressed more officially), and  most musicians were casually
>> dressed.  There were exceptions - Bud Freeman was very neat, and the
>> Wallace Davenport Band appeared in dark blue suits.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  If you're a
>>> normal type of talent, then you usually have to win your audience.  The
>>> audience sees you even before they hear you, so the first impression is
>>> important.
>>>
>>
>> At verious festivals I have seen musicians variously dressed, and I do not
>> recall an instance when music was judged on the basis of the apprel, not
>> EVEN striped jackets and trousers or ridiculuos waistcoats and derby hats.
>> I, as you know, am on the audience side.  Planning to attend the Bohem
>> festival organized by listmate Tamas.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz
>> Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>>
>>
>>
>> Dixielandjazz mailing list
>> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>
>
>
>-- 
>*Teledyn Addendum: teledyn blogspot ca*
>*eso: **EighthStreetOrchestra blogspot ca*
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>End of Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 134, Issue 10
>**********************************************
>
>
>