[Dixielandjazz] Small Band Swing or Dixieland?

[Steve Voce]

Although he played with Ory, I think Joe Darensbourg was probably white. He would never be drawn on the subject.

Steve Voce

On 14/02/2011 14:54, Marek Boym wrote:

> As Steve says, not all black musicians turned to bop.  Franz Jackson
> had a traditional - or Dixieland - band, as did Kid Ory, Joe
> Darensbourg (when not playing as sideman with others), Singleton
> Palmer, and more.  Yhere were quite a few black traditional musicians
> active on the West Coast, but the "new" white ones - the revivalists -
> stole the show.
> Somehow, I have the feeling that predominance of whites in this field
> was somehow connected with discrimination - it was easier for whites
> to find gigs.  Although the days of blatant segregation were over, at
> least in the north, many places would much rather employ whites.
> And we should not forget that numerous black musicians worked in
> "mixed" bands - Vic Dickenson, Edmond Hall, and more.
> Cheers
>
> On 14 February 2011 16:19, Stephen G Barbone
> <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>> Joe Carbery<joe.carbery at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Why bring ethnicity into it? Does a note care what colour of person blows
>>> or
>>> sings it?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>> Dear Joe:
>>
>> Because there should be volumes written about the kind of music I posted.
>> And the bands who played it. It was a part of the social as well as the
>> musical scene in New York City.
>>
>> Unfortunately not many folks know about it, except the few of us who were
>> there at the time to see history. Those on the left coast might ask Conrad
>> Janis about the number and competence of black musician s who switched to
>> Dixieland when the big bands folded. And about those blacks who played in
>> his band.
>>
>> We often hear that there were no black Dixieland bands during the 1950s and
>> 1960s. That they switched to bop.  both Conrad and I will tell you that
>> there were quite a few black dixieland bands and musicians in New York City
>> where we were playing at the time. Like the one fronted by James P Johnson.
>>
>> You are right, notes do not care what color the musician is, but history
>> should accurate reflect the social aspects at the time the music was played.
>> And we should ask ourselves why black bands were mostly categorized as small
>> band swing while white bands were categorized as Dixieland when they both
>> played essentially in the same style with similar instrumentation. Why, for
>> example does "Dixieland" seem to mean "White Bands".
>>
>> That's why ethnicity was brought up. One cannot accurately describe
>> Dixieland jazz without giving credit where credit is due, and in this case,
>> credit is due BLACK MUSICIANS.
>>
>> For further discussion of Small Band Swing v Dixieland, I suggest those who
>> have it, read the chapter on "Dixieland" in Richard Sudhalter's book, Lost
>> Chords.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steve Barbone
>> www.myspace.com/barbonestreetjazzband
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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