[Dixielandjazz] tuba, bass, etc

Tue Sep 28 12:20:29 PDT 2010

THANK YOU for this, John. 
I, not being a musician, could never understand why people 
said Lu Watters was playing like the Creole Jazz Band. I just 
could never see the similarity. I thought the whole thing was 
just over my head. 
I'm keeping this post. I like it. 
-- Rae Ann 

http://www.sfraeann.com 
http://www.youtube.com/sfraeann 
http://www.craigventresco.com 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Gill" <smokewagon at yahoo.com> 
To: rahberry at comcast.net 
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 12:09:36 PM 
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] tuba, bass, etc 

I couldn't help but notice all the chatter about tuba, bass, bass sax, and how it impacts on jazz. This subject has long been an intrest of mine and I started doing research about it years and years ago. I have never written anything down, but I did mangage to talk to a lot of oldtimers about the subject. 
With regard to New Orleans Styles of jazz I found many different avenues to explore. All the research that I did seems to indicate that the first bass instrument used in what we call jazz bands today was the string bass. The earliest know photos always have a string bass and a guitar along with drums. NO PIANO. I talked to some oldtimers about this (Chester Zardis who played tuba also, and Ed Garland) and they told me that the tuba was considered an out door instrument to be played in brass bands and that it was considered impolite to use a tuba indoors. I kid you not. Also that the tuba was too loud for the guitar and violin(all the early bands almost always had a violin). The reason for no piano was that most of the dance halls didn't have pianos because they just didn't hold up in the New Orleans weather. Most of the clubs were opened 24 hours and no air conditioning, heavy humidity, etc took it's toll on sensitive instruments. According to Jelly Roll 
Morton the piano was a ladies instrument and no polite lady would be seen in a dance hall in New Orleans in the 1890's. The reason for the guitar is also simple. The banjo (tenor or plectrum) as we know it today did not exist. The first tenor banjos arrived on the scene around 1914 followed by the plectrum a little later.By this time jass (jazz) had been around in one form or another for about 25 years.They didn't call it jazz in those days, they called it ragtime In those days the main banjo was a 5 string banjo strung with gut strings and played finger style with no picks, and it was considered a solo instrument to be backed by a guitar or piano. You could also get a 6 string banjo tuned like a guitar, and a mandolin banjo tuned like a violin. Some of the 5 string players began to remove the 5th string around 1910 or so and began plunking with guitar picks. This did not become effective until the advent of banjos strung with metal strings. Johnny St. 
Cyr who played with King Oliver and Jelly Roll Morton played a 6 string banjo as did Bud Scott. Johnny St. Cyr is shown holding a tenor banjo in the famous photo of Jelly Roll Morton's Red Hot Peppers but in a letter I have from him (photocopy, the letter was not written to me) he says he just posed with the tenor and never really played it. There is a very early photo of him with a mandolin banjo. Bud Scott did learn to play tenor banjo and played tenor and 6 string with King Oliver. Later he swithed back almost exclusivly to guitar. I think that we should never let the choice of bass instrument dictate what style the band plays in. For instance it's a common mistake to say if you use a bass it's swing music, if you use a tuba it's trad music. Jelly Roll Morton's most important records use a bass and his music is very traditional, Don Redman used a tuba and banjo way into the 1930's when everyone else was using a bass and guitar, but it would be a 
mistake to label his music trad. That said Morton did make many records with tuba and banjo, bass and guitar, tuba and guitar, etc. An Redman did make many records with bass and guitar. Guy Lombardo always used a tuba but you couldn't call his music trad jazz, it's polite dance music. Kid Ory always used bass and guitar but he definetly plays traditional jazz. The Hot Five had no bass at all, The original Dixieland Jazz Band had no bass instrument or a banjo or guitar. Jimmie Noones Apex Orch used tuba, bass, guitar, banjo in different combinations. 
I talked to Lu Watters and he told me that the reason he used a tuba and a banjo was that it seemed to work best for what he had in mind. It's a common mistake to say Watters copied King Oliver's Creole Jazz Band. That's way to simple an analysis. The Watters records sound absolutley nothing like King Oliver's records. Oliver didn't use a tuba until he organized his larger orchestra in the mid 1920's. His classic records use bass and bass sax. Watters utilized the Oliver repertoire but that's where the similarity ends. Also Watters' tuba men Dick Lammi and Squire Girsback also played string bass and both did double when the band played live. Turk Murphy also used string bass from time to time and he even had Pops Foster in his band for awhile. Sometimes it just depends on who's available. But remember you can play swing, trad, dixie or whatever with a string bass depending on the bands mindset and the bass player ability to switch stylistically. You can 
also swing with a tuba if it's in the hands of the right person. Same goes for banjo and guitar. Both instruments swing, stomp, play dixie, or trad and work in the hands of a good player. The bass player on the old Dukes of Dixieland would switch back and forth between bass and tuba for texture and color and for fun, lets not forget that element. It's fun to double instruments. 
Okay I've said too much. 
Regards 
John Gill 

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