[Dixielandjazz] Correct pitch in recordings. + funny consequence in the Chris Barber band history.

Sun Dec 26 01:41:20 PST 2010

Thank you all for your comments.

So the final conclusion is that it is a problem and it has sometimes caused
major problems for us. I don´t mean OKOM radio that is in the hands of an
imperfect recording industry. On the other hand, today several small
companies do issue "homemade" OKOM recordings that perhaps always should be
checked for the correct pitch before they are issued. The master, reel tape
or cassette, could have been recorded on any kind of imperfect hardware many
years ago. Or, the piano was far out of pitch (and often also out of tune
which you can´t do much about). 

There is of course a solution for everything, if you have the money. In this
case it is the Superscope line of CD players that allows you to make
corrections of the pitch and speed in real time. A minor change of pitch do
not according to my opinion change the character of the recording in any
notable way. Check http://www.superscopetechnologies.com/. That means that
you do not have to sit in front of your computer to play along in a
corrected CD pitch. In a computer you can for instance use the Band in the
Box SW. http://www.pgmusic.com/

Radio and TV technician as I am I have,
- a Superscope PSD 230 CD player to vary the speed
- a Tascam 302 semi professional cassette player were you can vary the speed
- Band in the Box software in the computer were you can do anything you want

Ulf in Stockholm who has been hit, since November, by the largest snowfalls
(two to three feet so far) and cold (down or below zero F) recorded in one
hundred years. We call it global warming!!!

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] För Bert Brandsma
Skickat: den 26 december 2010 05:50
Till: Ulf Jagfors
Kopia: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Ämne: [Dixielandjazz] Correct pitch in recordings. + funny consequence in
the Chris Barber band history.
The record companies seldom do pitch correction. Most of them are not
interested in art, usually the bigger companies at least, are simply
interested in making money.Earlier on more expensive record players had a
simple device that could correct it, even some cassette players and tape
players can do it.However, on digitalised music this strangely enough is not
so easy. It IS possible, but  the problem is that digital correction affects
everything including sound quality.So the more you correct it, the more you
hear it in the sound quality. Notes start to sound mechanical if you go too
far. Effects they use deliberatly on modern artists like Lady Gaga btw :
pitch control.
A nice story about consequences :
In the 1950's Bechet's composition : Petite Fleur became famous, so every
band had to learn it.So did the Chris Barber band. Their clarinettist, the
shortly ago deceased Monty Sunshine (RIP) had a copy or a machine that
played it too high, so he learned it in Ab minor, instead of the original
key of G minor.Concequence is that the players in that band up till today
have to learn it in Monty Sunshine's key, which is much harder on clarinet!
Kind regards,
Bert Brandsma

> From: ulf.jagfors at telia.com
> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 00:36:36 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Correct pitch in recordings
> CC: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> To: mister_bertje at hotmail.com
> 
> Bob and Rick
> 
> Perhaps so Bob , but for instance part of the Bix B. program, produced in
> Australia, is more or less out of tune. I guess it was produced not too
long
> ago. Rick, that can of course not be corrected by a capo if the
broadcasted
> key lays just between the intervals. You have to retune the banjo
> completely. Of course I just ignore those tunes which is quite a few. Just
> check for yourself. 
> 
> However my question was a little broader than just the OKOM pitch quality.
> Do the reissue companies make any pitch correction from old masters? Also
I
> know from my own experience that a lot of pianos used in live recordings
can
> be quite off in pitch. If OKOM broadcast such an recording it will of
course
> be out of pitch as well. The question is of course, should there be any
> pitch corrections made by OKOM. Probably not as this should require too
much
> manpower. We have to accept that this is an imperfect world.
>  
> Just an comparison. I wonder how much fuzz it should be from classical
> musicians if a Bach A-moll concert suddenly was broadcasted in near but
not
> B. It should probably be a lot of angry comments specially from those with
> perfect pitch. But we OKOM´rs are of course dealing with a less important
> type of music, so who cares? :-).    
> 
> Ulf
> Radio and TV-engineer since 1958 who really very much like the OKOM radio
> idea. Thanks to all of you for all your hard work to get it running. I
know
> how it is to run broadcasting services after 42 years in the business.
> 
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
> [mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] För Robert Ringwald
> Skickat: den 25 december 2010 23:26
> Till: Ulf Jagfors
> Kopia: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
> Ämne: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Correct pitch in recordings
> 
> Ulf Jagfors, ulf.jagfors at telia.com wrote:
> 
> 
> (Snip)
> By using the tunes that constantly come up
> on OKOM radio I get a very good practice for both the harmonies and
rhythm.
> 
> However very often the tunes played are much out of the regular 440-442 A
> pitch, sometimes up to half or whole tone away. C will be C# etc. That
goes
> both for old recordings as well as contemporary ones. The question from
side
> is following. How come? Are there a problem in the player equipment used
by
> the different programmers? If not, in many cases a piano is involved. I
> always assume that the piano should set the pitch for band at least around
> 440, at least for modern recordings after WW II. Then you have the none
> conform standard of the old 78 rpm records of the 20´s were the different
> recording companies not always recorded in 78 rpm. 
> (Snip)
>  
> Ulf,
> 
> As far as I know, the newer recordings, if done professionally at all,
> should have been recorded at the correct speed.  Thus the pitch, if played
> on a device that is calibrated to the correct speed, should be at the
right
> pitch.  
> 
> On Radio OKOM, if the pitch is off, then I would guess that the equipment
> used while producing the show was faulty.  This, especially on the shows
> that were recorded early on, around 2002, before some of the equipment was
> updated.  This would be especially true if the DJ was using a turntable or
> cassette player.  These devices can very easily not be calibrated and be
> running at the wrong speed.  The shows also might have been recorded on
> tape.  That machine could also be off-speed.    
> 
> Anyone on DJML who does shows on Radio OKOM, such as Harry Callaghan, or a
> recording engineer such as Jim Kashishian might be able to shed more light
> on the subject.  
> 
> Best,
> 
> --Bob Ringwald
> www.ringwald.com
> Fulton Street Jazz Band
> 530/ 642-9551 Office
> 916/ 806-9551 Cell
> Amateur (Ham) Radio K6YBV
> 
> In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. 
> Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
> 
>   
> 
> 
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