[Dixielandjazz] smooth jazz discussion-- more from Howard Mandel

[Vinny]

1) Is there merit in smooth jazz?

All music has merit to someone. Even things that I consider god awful have
merit to someone else. I don't consider smooth jazz god awful, some of it I
like, some of it I don't

2) Is there pop R&B of enduring entertainment value?

Of course there is though not everyone will agree (a matter of taste) but I
suspect the average person with no musical education (the majority of the
world population) will like and listen to Michael Jackson's or Luther
Vandross, recordings.
Remember you wrote "enduring entertainment value" and some people will
always enjoy and be entertained by it just like others will enjoy and be
entertained by songs like "How much is that doggy in the window".

3) Are either of them jazz?

Some would argue strongly that smooth jazz is jazz but I would tend to
disagree on this basis. The element of swing in the strict sense is absent.
There isn't much improvisation in fact I'd say Chicago blues (Buddy Guy for
example) has more improvisation. 
Smooth jazz to me personally is a form of pop/R&B (in fact I had wrote that
prior to this). It's polished and recorded very well, in some cases they use
drum machines (Al Jarreau has) and other studio gimmickry, in some instances
they don't.


To conclude I'd like to add that I like, play and enjoy many types of music.
I have an eclectic taste I've been told, from classical to country, Pop to
Bop, Suosa to Sonny Sherock, James Brown to Julian Bream, Sea Shanty to
Gregorian Chant.
I give everything a first listen with an open mind. I either like it or I
don't. 


-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Norman Vickers
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 8:14 AM
To: Vinny
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] smooth jazz discussion-- more from Howard Mandel

To:  DJML and Musicians & Jazzfans list

From:  Norman Vickers

 

Howard Mandel, president of Jazz Journalists Association, adds his comments
to the discussion.

 

Thanks, all.

 

fnv

 

From: howard Mandel [mailto:jazzmandel at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:52 PM
To: Norman Vickers
Subject: Re: demise of a smooth jazz station Vinny Nicosia and Ken Dryden
write:

 

Pace Ken's "pseudo-jazz" -- Lame Jazz. 

 

There's always been mediocre music trying to exploit a connection with jazz
-- and much of jazz history, as constructed from seemingly anyone's point of
view, is involved with trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. Is there
merit in smooth jazz? Is there "pop r&b" of enduring entertainment value?
Are either of them "jazz"? I humbly ask Mr. Nicosia to offer some
definitions to back up his declarations, 

 

I believe the truth of jazz is that nobody can really capture its essence --
not marketers, not historians, not critic -- because it's a quicksilver art
form, always changing as it occurs and is observed and re--engaged. 

 

"Mislabeling" suggests there's an objective, consensual standard, a
stylistic  measuring stick to put any particular music up against. Pop r&b
of the '40s -- would that include Fats Waller, Louis Jordan, Hot Lips Page?
Of the '70s and '80s -- Grover Washington and Dave Sanborn? Fusion -- if
Tony Williams' "Lifetime", Miles' "In A Silent Way," Benson's "Body Talk"
and "On Broadway," Wes Montgomery's A Day In The Life, Ramsey Lewis' "The In
Crowd" haven't led to the music of the past 40 years that is all marketed,
consumed and considered by populists and elitists alike as jazz, what "jazz"
are we talking about? A practice and tradition that stopped enfolding new
ideas 80 years ago? 

 

Howard Mandel

Howard Mandel

jazzmandel at earthlink.net

phone 212 533 9495

mobile 212 533 4952

 

see my blog:

www.HowardMandel.com

www.ArtsJournal.com/jazzbeyondjazz

 

 

 

 Vickers writes:  since  Howard makes reference to previous note, I've
appended previous posts from Vinny & Ken..

 

____________________________________________________________________________
____________

:Vinny Nicosia, drummer from Nyack, NY responds. Here's the website of his
band". www.thethebandband.com

 

 

There was a station here in New York, CD101.9, that played its "Smooth
Jazz". I think the station owned the recording studio because everything
sounded as though it all was recorded at one session and I mean everything.

 

My take; Smooth jazz is not jazz but pop R&B.

         Fusion is not jazz but rather Rock with hipper chords

 

These things are valid music and whether you like them or not is left to
taste but they are erroneously mislabeled.

 

 

It's as If record executives say "If it's in Bb its jazz"

"If they use a flatted fifth it's jazz"

"If the guy plays a soprano (even if his name is Kenny G) it's jazz"

 

Ken Dryden, jazz journalist of Chattanooga writes regarding definition of

Smooth jazz:  I prefer the term pseudo-jazz, due to its repetitious nature
and lack of compelling improvised solos.

 

 
--end--

 

 

 

 

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