[Dixielandjazz] Earl Hines with Louis.
Glen Page
gpage at dccnet.com
Sun Jan 18 13:07:03 PST 2009
I realize that this is a somewhat belated response to the original
discussion below but some may be interested.
I do not claim to be an authority on these matters, merely passing along
what is in the Earl Hines book that I quoted a week or so ago.
"Joins Louis Armstrong, to Nice festival 22-28 Feb 1948.
1949 On tour with L.A., intends forming a 12 piece band, reported in
Downbeat "Still with L.A." Downbeat. European tour with L.A.All Stars,
info in Memorabilia to Stanley Dance.
Next relevant note 1951 in DOWNBEAT "ARMSTRONG angry when Hines quits him
in fall".
Cheers,
Glen
----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Thad McArthur
Sent: January 16, 2009 9:52 PM
To: glen page
Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Louis Armstrong at Bily Bergs
Dear Hakan,
My name is Thad to all my friends. I don't know how to make the diacritic
mark over the first a in your name. I hope first names are appropriate as
we discuss the itineraries of Louis Armstrong.
After our discussion, the research you have presented and without resorting
to the old boxes of memorabilia, I think your itinerary should include the
Louis Armstrong big band was in Seatlle, WA sometime in the Spring of 1947
and the Louis Armstrong All Stars, including Louis, Jack Teagarden, Barney
Bigard, Earl Hines, Sid Catlett and Arvell Shaw, without Velma Middleton,
were at Billy Berg's in Hollywood, CA during the month of August 1948.
That's the way I remembered it going in, before looking at your very
complete and interesting schedule/itinerary data. I would be very
interested to look at any other material that you may come upon. Most all
facets of Jazz are very interesting to me, an old, non-musician devotee, but
I am as hard to move as some of my long-time Swedish friends.
I competed in the sport of Modern Pentathlon, which the Swedes invented and
introduced into the Olympic Games there in Stockholm in 1912. On the way to
Helsinki for the games in 1952, I stopped in Stockholm for two days going
and three days coming home, it was a great visit. Lars Hall, from your
country, won the Gold and I ended up in 8th place. In 1984 in Los Angeles,
I worked with my friend Willi Grut, Swedish Gold Medal winner from the 1948
Olympic Games, who put on the sport for the Los Angeles Olympic Committee.
I have a very healthly regard for all of you. The Jazzin' Jacks sometimes
get into more comedy than I like, which can obscure their considerable
musical skills, but that's another story.
Please keep me apprised of your progress, any new material you come upon
and/or the error in my memory or thinking which your data may indicate.
Thank you.
Regards, Thad McArthur
--- Original Message -----
From: Håkan Forsberg
To: 'Thad McArthur'
Sent: 01/16/2009 2:57 PM
Subject: SV: Louis Armstrong at Bily Bergs
Dear Mr. McArthur.
Thanks for your prompt reply and your interesting comments. You mentioned
the Armstrong bigband and Washington. Well, Armstrong ended his bigband
career with one week at the Apollo in NY in July 1947. Earlier in that year
he performed in Washington at least twice - first
January 12-18
Washington, DC, Music Hall. (Washington Afro American Jan 14, 1947;
BAA Jan 18, 1947; DB Jan 15 & Jan 29, 1947; Var Dec 11, 1946 & Jan 15, 1947)
and later
?-June 6
Washington, DC, Howard Theatre. (DB June 4, 1947) DB: "closing June
6". Unknown length of the engagement.
Perhaps he performed at the Seattle Civic Auditorium in connection with
one of these engagements - if so, which of them? -or was it in during the
Club Bali engagement in 1948 (see below)?
Back to the Billy Berg engagement. When the All Stars made their debut at
Billy Berg's in August 1947 Mort Corb was the bass man and Dick Cary was on
piano. Velma Middleton was in Louis' last bigband and so was Arvell Shaw
but none of these were in the band when it premiered at Billy Berg's. Mort
Corb - who was a Los Angeles-based musician - remained in LA when the band
left after Billy Berg's and Arvell Shaw came in. Velma Middleton joined some
time later but both were definitively in the band at a Carnegie Hall concert
November 15, 1947.
Even if Earl Hines very early was considered as the first choice for
pianist in the Armstrong All Stars he didn't join until February 1948 at the
Roxy in NY. So, if you are certain that Hines occupied the piano chair when
you saw the All Stars at Billy Berg's it most probably must have been at a
Summer 1948 engagement.
You ask how firm my information on the Nomad in Atlantic City, NJ
engagement is. Well, these are my notes:
Prob. June (unknown length)
Washington, DC, Club Bali. (DB July 28 & Oct 6, 1948) DB July 28 has
photo of the band at Club Bali.
July 2-29
Wildwood, NJ, Martinique. (DB June 16 & June 30 & July 14 & July 28,
1948; Waters) Note: Waters gives the venue as Surf as does DB for June 16,
1948. Possibly the engagement was split between two venues, Martinique and
Surf?
July 30-August 26
Atlantic City, NJ, Nomad. (DB July 28 & Aug 11 & Aug 25, 1948;
Waters)
August 11
New York, NY, Lewisohn Stadium, NYAN Welfare Funds Music Festival.
(NYAN July 31, 1948)
September 1
Detroit, MI, Fox Theatre. (LAHA) Note: LAHA lists this engagement for
September 1, 1949 but it seems to fit much better one year earlier, in this
position.
Early September
Detroit, MI, Coliseum, Michigan State Fair. (Allen p.458, 468)
September 6-19
Philadelphia, PA, The Click club. (DB Aug 25, 1948)
Even if my sources (Down Beat magazine and Teagarden specialist Howard
Waters) ought to be reliable it seems a little bit strange to me that the
All Stars should have been engaged in NJ for two months in a row so your
implication that Louis could have been at Billy Berg's some period in
July-August 1948 seems quite possible.
However, your statement that Velma Middleton definitively wasn't in the
band raises suspicions that you in fact were at Billy Berg's in
August-September 1947. And one thing is certain - Velma was never part of
the Benny Goodman "company". The only period when there was some connection
between Velma Middleton and Benny Goodman was when the Goodman orchestra and
the Armstrong All Stars went on tour together, but that was in 1953, April
13-ca June 2, and then Benny himself got so frustrated by Armstrong's stage
manners (and popularity!) that he quit the tour after just about a week and
left it to Gene Krupa to front the orchestra for the rest of the tour.
Regarding your
Once again - thanks for your kind help. I will try to find information on
the Summer of 1948 that could fit your recollections.
Best wishes
Håkan Forsberg
PS. Any recollections you may have of Armstrong performances in the 40s,
50s or later are of interest! / HF again
PS 2. To all I state above must be added "I believe" or "I think" since
nothing in this field is absolutely certain, regardless of what DB or Waters
or other sources may state!!!! / HF anew
Från: Thad McArthur [mailto:wthadmc at whidbey.com]
Skickat: den 16 januari 2009 22:54
Till: Håkan Forsberg
Kopia: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Ämne: Re: Louis Armstrong at Bily Bergs
Dear Mr. Forsberg,
Your list of facts has really made me challenge my memory which has always
been pretty good, albeit I may have a slight amount of slippage over the
past 80 years. The first time frame you cite, August 13 to September 11,
definitely fits the time of year, but I have always thought of the year as
1948. The fact that this engagement was thought of as a "premier" also
fits my recollection. But, there was no Dick Cary or Mort Cobb at this
engagement. These places were definitely filled by Earl Hines and Arvell
Shaw, at least 3 nights. This would match up with the 1948 date. I am also
trying to fit in Louis Armstrong and his big band at an all-University of
Washington dance which we had at the old Seattle Civic Auditorium. I was
remembering that as probably the Spring of 1947 which makes it even more
likely that I was at Berg's in my previously-remembered, 1948. At this
point I have not tried to access any old, packed-away memorabilia which may
or may not shed further light on these time frames.
Later in your your letter you mention "there is room for a summer
engagement at Billy Berg's in the period June 13 to July 1", 1948. This is
too early in the year to mesh with my recollection. I was in Los Angeles
late July thru August. How firm is your information on the "July 30-August
26 spent at the Nomad in Atlantic city, NJ"? This would fit my remembered
time-frame but is a continent removed.
You also mentioned Velma Middleton as part of the All-Stars at one of the
Berg engagements. She was definitely not there on the occasions I saw them.
I have seen Velma, was she part of Benny Goodman's band when they left
Seattle for their "Mission to Moscow"?
So here we are Mr. Forsberg. Have I caused more problems than given
corroborating information? I made trips to Los Angeles in the summers,
perhaps 6 or 7 times in the 10 years between 1946 and 1956 and tried to pack
in as much music and legitimate entertainment as I could during these
visits. I have a great many memories and the All-Stars at Billy Berg's is
one of the greatest, 60 years later. Perhaps you have other questions that
might spark my brain to remember something of interest to you. You have
prompted me to reflect on on some very pleasant times, thank you.
My best regards to you, Thad McArthur
----- Original Message -----
From: Håkan Forsberg
To: wthadmc at whidbey.com
Sent: 01/16/2009 12:20 AM
Subject: Louis Armstrong at Bily Bergs
Dear Mr McArthur.
Yesterday I received a copy of an e-mail from you where you relate
watching Louis Armstrong and the All Stars for several nights at Billy
Berg's in Hollywood in the Summer of 1948.
Until I go further I will tell you that my name is Håkan Forsberg and I
am living in Sweden. For about 50 years I have collected the music of Louis
Armstrong and I took an active part in Jos Willems' work with the new and
"complete" Armstrong discography "All Of Me" that came on the bookshelves
two years ago. Presently I am trying to establish an as complete as possible
day-by-day schedule for Louis Armstrong and therefore I got very interested
in your account of Louis at Billy Berg's in the summer of 1948.
Louis' All Stars premiered at Billy Berg's in 1947 - August 13 to
September 11 - and came back a few months later for an engagement that
lasted from December 24, 1947 to January 19, 1948.
At the first stay at Billy Berg's the band had Louis, Teagarden, Bigard,
Dick Cary on piano, Mort Corb on bass and Sid Catlett on drums. When they
came back in December Arvell Shaw had replaced Mort Corb and Velma Middleton
had been added as vocalist. Dick Cary remained on piano.
After a period in New York in early 1948 the band left for the Nice jazz
festival, remaining in France until early March. From mid-March through
April they had 2-week engagements in Chicago (Blue Note) and Springfield, IL
(The Orchid) plus a few short dates inbetween. May 11 through May 31 they
were at the Riptide in Calumet City and thereafter, until June 12 they
performed at Ciro's in Philadelphia.
The next long engagement was July 2-29 at the Martinique (or the Surf -
possibly both?) in Wildwood, NJ and July 30-August 26 were spent at the
Nomad in Atlantic City, NJ. In early September they went back to
Philadelphia for two weeks but this time at the Click.
As you see of this list (that I believe to be correct) there is "room
for" a summer engagement at Billy Berg's in the period June 13 to July 1
but I have not heard of such a third period at that venue . There is, on the
other hand, a report of an engagement at Club Bali in Washington, even a
photo in Down Beat for July 28, 1948, but the exact date and length for such
an engagement is not known by me.
You mention Earl Hines on piano. He joined in February 1948 and remained
for a couple of years.
I don't question your memory at all but would nevertheless be much
obliged if you would help me to rule out the possibility that you had seen
and heard the All Stars in 1947 or December 1947-January 1948 by thinking
the following questions over:
- are you certain that Earl Hines was on piano and not Dick Cary
- ditto, regarding Arvell Shaw on bass and not Mort Corb, and
- do you remember Velma Middleton in the band at the time?
- if you answer "yes" to these questions - could the second half of June
1948 be the period when you heard and saw the All Stars at Billy Berg's?
Best wishes and thanks in advance for taking your time with this matter
Håkan Forsberg hakan.forsberg at umea.bonet.se
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