[Dixielandjazz] Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 84, Issue 11

[Fred Hoeptner]

Sorry. Yes, I must admit to a bit of flippancy here. In a more serious vein,
for me the occasional discussion of technical issues is appropriate and
makes the group more interesting. 

I actually tried playing the chord sequence that Dick proposes on the piano.
Although I consider myself a rank amateur musician, I can understand that it
works in theory, perhaps in a piano bar arrangement, but I believe that it
would be impractical in a Dixieland context.

I had occasionally played the chord which Dick calls C13, which I believe
would usually be B flat, D, and A (correct?) in the treble, with C in the
bass, without knowing that it had a name. Of course, many of the notes that
the "13" implies are omitted, namely E, G, and F, which confuses
understanding the connection. If I'm correct, it seems like a rather
convoluted way to designate a relatively simple chord although I have
nothing better to offer.

I agree with Steve that the melody note often dictates these so-called
"extended" chords and in that context they are definitely suitable for OKOM.

- Fred 

Fred, I take it that you meant this not so rigid as it sounds :-) but
please reread what it says on

<http://www.islandnet.com/~djml/> where it says:

 "... The list is open to everyone ... as well as to (Dixieland Jazz)
musicians and aficionados."

Well, I am a musician and an aficionado and I sometimes like to
discuss more than things like which Armstrong recording I like best
or where I am going to play or have played before.

But I hear you and will try to refrain from technicalities that might
confuse non-musicians.

Fred wrote a.o:

>I am nonplussed. I must remind you that this is a "Dixieland jazz"
> discussion group. As such, no discussion of chords more
> sophisticated than
> the major triad, minor triad, major minor seventh (dominant
> seventh),
> perhaps added sixth, and diminished seventh are permissible.
> You are forgiven this time, but in the future please desist from
> such transgressions.


Stephen wrote a.o:

> Damn, I knew it all along, Bix was one of those damn Be Boppers.
> <grin> As was Pee Wee Russell who made liberal use of chord
> extensions
> and flatted fifths way back in the 1920s. Who else sinned in this
> manner? Listen and ye shall hear.
>
> Lets give Dixieland a little credit. It is one hell of a lot more
> than
> triads, sevenths, an added sixth and a diminished seventh here and
> there.

Thank you Steve! It is my belief that those 'transgressions' as Fred
calls them, are most of the time dictated by the melody. I made up a
small list of titles for clarification. They are all OKOM, in my
opinion:

  1 - After You've Gone
  2 - Big Butter and Egg Man
  3 - I'll be a Friend with Pleasure
  4 - I'm gonna sit right down
  5 - Rockin' Chair
  6 - Struttin' with some Barbecue
  7 - You've changed
  8 - Way down yonder in New Orleans
  9 - When it's sleepy time down South
10 - Misty

In each and everyone you'll find melody notes that lead to 
extensions from the standard chords.

Cheers (it's not even Christmas but it's already White :-))

Dick Sleeman


Fred Hoeptner writes:

> However, I
> must disagree with Mr. Kapilow in his statement about minor chords.
> "Listen"
> is indeed minor, but not "glisten," which is merely the seventh of
> the
> tonic, which I assume here to be C. To me the "heartbreaking"
> feature
> relative to "glisten" is the sequence of chords leading into it:
> "tree" = C,
> "tops" = E minor or C maj 7th, "glisten" = C7.

Well I don't find that "glisten" should just be a C7, although it says
so in the lead sheet by Mr. Berlin. In the first place it's not a
seventh but a sixth, so it should be a C13 (or a C7add6 if you will),
but I hear it being preceded by a Gmin9, the 9 being the melody
'a' on "glisten" (and there you have the "minor" chord!).

So the sequence of chords I play is:

- tree ........ C
- tops ....... Cmaj7
- glisten ... Gmin9 - C13
- and
- chil- ........ F
- dren ....... Fmaj7
- listen ...... Fmin69 - Bb13

In an arrangement I wrote some time ago I had the lower strings
play C-B-Bb en F-E-D in these places. And, albeit not
'heartbreaking', it still brings a tear to my eyes....

It's a good thing that we musicians KEEP debating details
like this :-)

Warm regards,

Dick Sleeman