[Dixielandjazz] trombone style change

[Steven Holzer]

eupher dude wrote:
> When did the trombone go from the raucaus "tailgate" style of Ory et al (and Murphy later) to the sweet, smooth style of Dorsey etc?  (et al, etc, I love 'em!)
>
> I've never seen a discussion of this.  It's such a huge difference that happened in a relatively short period of time I'd guess, no more than 5-6 years.
>
>   
George Thurmond probably is fairly on target to the extent that if 
anybody was responsible for a change of trombone styles, it was probably 
Jack Teagarden and his black opposite number Jimmy Harrison. When 
somebody sounds that good, it _is_ awfully hard not to follow their lead.

I think it also probable that as trombones came to seek more prominent 
roles, they found melodic playing more appropriate to their expanded 
ambitions. Then too, there is the  difference between the predominantly 
black marketplace that the music increasingly outgrew and the 
predominantly white marketplaces that the music increasingly entered as 
it moved north and east. The quotient of raucous versus smooth was bound 
to change if people like Paul Whiteman had any say in it, and they 
certainly did.

I think it is fair to ask, however, whether there truly was a change, 
per se. Players like Tommy Dorsey undoubtedly were playing smooth, sweet 
trombone before jazz hit the eastern states. It was part of the dance 
band tradition they grew up in. Players like Ory did not necessarily 
cease to play the more "raucous" style they brought with them, either. 
Once the players began to mix, it was more or less inevitable that they 
would learn from one another and that all musical organizations would 
adapt more or less of raucousness or more or less of smoothness as their 
prior orientation left room for or could benefit from. I suppose the 
leavening effect of smoothness would be more apparent and therefore 
might be thought of as the "trend", but I suspect that is an 
oversimplification of what really happened. Did vaunted sweet players 
like Tommy Dorsey and even Russ Morgan not pick up rowdy elements as 
well? Would Miff Mole have been what he was if it were not a two-way 
street? And just how much sweetness did George Brunies ever absorb, anyhow?

Steve Holzer