[Dixielandjazz] Valve Bones- a personal view

Sat Mar 15 15:54:46 PDT 2008

yep Don, Doc was a fine dixie 
  drummer. i met him while playing together at 1111 club. i hit Chi town a little ahead of you.  Chuck Hedges and i shared an apt while we both cut our teeth on the scene. i played with D Alvin, Bob Ballard and if i could type without my glassed a whole bunch more.                     i m having a surgery on my nose so --- no glasses.

Don Ingle <dingle at nomadinter.net> wrote:
  Knew Doc Cenardo well. early onin Chicago when he was with the JAzz Td. 
band and I used to go into the old club at State and Grand. I later 
worked with Doc in L.A. at the Millionaire's Club with Pete Bielmann's 
band, and we got to be even better friends.
Theman could play the sweetiest press rolls this side of New Orleans.Doc 
was the go between with Bill Rheinhardt at Jazz Ltd. when I was hired 
for the turmper chair inthe 60's. Over all I put in nearly five years 
there from '63 to '68.
Nioce to hear Doc's name again. His wife was a neat lady, too.
Don

Marty Nichols wrote:
> Don Ingle wrote:"
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:20:19 -0400
> From: Don Ingle 
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Valve Bones - a personal view.
> To: DJML 
> Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List 
> Message-ID: <47DAB3D3.20006 at nomadinter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I have played a Conn V-bone that I picked out of the line at the
> Elkhart 
> plant in the 60's when I was still in the house band at Chicago's Jazz 
> Ltd. on trumpet.
> I had played valve bone as a double with the Ted Weems Band -- all the
> 
> trumpet players doubled so there was a four trombone "choir" on some
> charts.
> I took three horns back to Chicago to try out for two weeks, sent two 
> back, bought the other and have used it ever since. (Those who have any
> 
> of the LP's or CD's of the Sons Of Bix will hear it on that band (since
> 
> we had the wonderful Bixian cornet sound of Tom Pletcher so other
> cornet 
> players need not apply.) I also played v-bone with Joe Marsala in a 
> quintette in Aspen, and onseveral L.A. gigs with Rosy McHargue - not
> the 
> Conn then but an old hock shop Austrian horn I'd picked up for $40 in
> my 
> Senor year at MSU. It played enough to do the job but was a stuffy horn
> 
> that wore one out.
> The Conn V-bone is built on an odd combination -- pistons - over-bored
> - 
> are from a trumpet design, the 22-B; the bell is off a Conn 6-H 
> trombone, (and hanging on to one all night calls from some arm muscle 
> conditioning -- just lots of brass.) But that horn has a sound big 
> enough to call in an elk in heat from a mountain away.
> As to playing in tune - all brass instruments require you to use ear
> and 
> lip control, as there are areas within any horn that are less in tune 
> than others. The constant player learns to lip for these instinctively
> - 
> especially the low D and C sharp on trumpet/cornet. Some horns have a 
> trigger that will add length to the third valve tuning slide, but most 
> players just lip it by practice.
> As to other intonation and volume problems, go back to playing right
> -- 
> as in getting enough air into you to support the air stream -- suck it 
> down to fill the bottom of the gut and use the diaphragm muscles to 
> support it. Practice playing sustained long tones, soft to loud to soft
> 
> again, and lots of them, and much of this problem will disappear. 
> Fundamentals still count on any horn and especially a brass one.
>
> Yamaha has made a decent V bone -- Reynold made them and they were, in 
> my humble opinion, a waste of good brass. Each player must decide what 
> sounds right and plays well for himself. Satisfy yourself first, then 
> play your best and stand.
> At least for a change there has been talk about V-bones without the 
> usual 'put down' as to not belonging in a trad band. Valve trombones
> are 
> what they are - and in the hands of a player that puts in the time and 
> effort, can be capable of very good jazz - in any jazz band, trad or 
> not. (I evoke the memory of the Condon's with Brad Gowans or Frank 
> Orchard as my best examples.)
> My opinions --- that's all they are. Having gicen them, I too will
> stand.
> Don Ingle"
> 
> I don't play valve, not since a brief flirtation with one in Chicago, circa 1955-57 or so. I was just learning to play slide when Bob Brookmeyer came on the national scene and I thought I really needed to try valve, so I got a loan from a bank where I worked and bought one. My approach was to try and "fake it" , just like I did on slide. Didn't work well.
> 
> I was picking up the valve on a tune or two during a gig somewhere on Chicago west side. The only guy I can remember who was on the gig was Doc Cenardo (dms), now long deceased but known to many OKOM aficionados I'm sure. I used to spot him on breaks, standing outside the club and he always seemed to be smiling or chuckling. I wonder if he was laughing at me?
> 
> Anyway, the reason I am posting is to sing the praises of the valve bone when in the hands of Bob Brookmeyer. I have several of his recordings, the latest being ""KANSAS CITY SOUNDS." By Fresh Sound Records (FSR CD 430)
> 
> If one regards the valve bone as merely a trombone with keys instead of slide so as to facilitate faster more "notey"
> performances, forget it! Bob B. does things with a valve bone that should make any slide player envious, and not for speed.
> 
> Brookmeyer gets effects and tones with his axe that really get one's undivided attention. But you have to hear it.
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gerald M."Marty" Nichols
> Hear Me Play Trombone On "New Orleans" at
> http://myspace.com/freemarty And 
> Hear Me Sing "Rosetta" at 
> http://www.esnips.com/web/JazzTrombone
> 
> Click On The Box with a mike and cd ;)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or change your e-mail preferences for the Dixieland Jazz Mailing list, or to find the online archives, please visit:
>
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>
>
>
> 

Gerald M."Marty" Nichols
  Hear Me  Play Trombone On "New Orleans" at
  http://myspace.com/freemarty And 
  Hear Me Sing "Rosetta" at 
http://www.esnips.com/web/JazzTrombone

  Click On The Box with a mike and cd ;)