[Dixielandjazz] 17 vs 19 fret for ease of chording

Wed Jan 2 09:05:49 PST 2008

The nut problem is a very real cause of chording problems when using bar 
chords but if you are trying to use the soft flat part of your finger to 
press down can cause it too.    You said rolling your finger was difficult 
but the side of your finger is much harder and more efficient in pressing 
down the strings.  The finger should be rolled to about the 45 degree angle. 
That worked for me although I have seen guitar players who's first finger 
was quite flat.  There is a difference between the string height in an 
acoustic instrument and an electric and that may account for the difference.

You might also check the bridge height and consider adjusting the angle of 
the neck but lowering the bridge can have the same effect.   I am assuming 
that the neck is straight and the frets aren't worn out.  I bought one of 
Mel Bay's personal banjos and the first four frets or so were very worn.  I 
didn't notice it when I bought it but after playing on it for a week it was 
just impossible to play cleanly unless I used my fingertips.  He had it re 
fretted for me and I had no problems after that.

Check that neck with a steel straight edge.  Many have a slight bow in them 
and there may be an adjustment you can make if it is.  This is also a good 
way to see if you have worn or uneven frets.

I was considering re learning the fingerings and tuning before I had my 
accident that put me out of the banjo / guitar playing business because 
playing banjo was very tiring on longer gigs.  I had a lot of trouble with 
my hand cramping especially when the horn players decided to take endless 
choruses.  Oddly enough I didn't have the problem with guitar even my 12 
string didn't cause me any problems.  This is probably due to the difference 
in string height of the electric vs. acoustic that I mentioned before.

Since there are only 4 strings you might try playing each with a separate 
finger.  I have small hands and that never worked for me very well.  Guitar 
tuning just seems to work well with bar chords.  There are a lot of times 
you can play three string chords too while blocking the odd string but 
that's only an option.

Be careful adjusting that nut.  Just a few strokes with a file can destroy 
it.  (Been there, Done that)  Should that happen you can repair it with a 
little epoxy glue down in the slot and re file it.  I used a fine knife edge 
jewelers file available at some hobby shops to make the adjustment.
Larry
St. Louis

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Anthony" <santh at pacbell.net>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] 17 vs 19 fret for ease of chording

> This may not interest non-banjo/guitar players, but here goes...
>
> I doubt very much that the number of frets on the banjo or the scale 
> length (length of string from nut to bridge) has much to do with what you 
> are experiencing except indirectly (see below). It sounds to me like the 
> action on your banjo is not set up very well, especially at the nut, so 
> that you need to press down too hard to get a good clean sound. You might 
> need to file the slots in the nut a bit deeper. Here's a link to a site 
> that shows how to get the nut slots just the right depth:
>
> http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html
>
> (By the way, this is a wonderful site for stringed instrument players. 
> Their online "museum" is fabulous. It has items such as the Martin 
> Centennial special guitars and a Gibson Super 400 Tenor guitar!)
>
> A couple of additional points I might mention:
>
> 1. A 17 fret, short scale banjo with light strings made for a plectrum 
> (that has 22 frets) will give you really "floppy", loose strings. This 
> might have something to do with the problem you are having. In general, 
> the shorter the scale, the larger the diameter/gauge of the strings for a 
> given pitch. Your 17 fret instrument is designed to be a tenor banjo, 
> pitched way higher than what you are tuning to or what the plectrum is 
> tuned to. With loose strings, you need to set the action (and the string 
> height at the nut) very high to avoid buzzing. With heavier strings, you 
> can set the action much lower without buzzing. I couldn't find the Deering 
> 17 fret Goodtime model on their website, but I would imagine the scale 
> length is about 22" - 22-1/2". Putting light gauge plectrum strings (meant 
> for scale lengths of 26" - 27-1/2" is not a good combination. For your 
> tenor tuned to guitar I should think the gauges should be, starting with 
> the 1st string:
> 13, 17, 24, 36
>
> 2. You should make sure that your thumb stays centered as much as possible 
> on the back of the neck, not out the bass side like some guitar players 
> do. This will give you better pressure for the barred chords and might fix 
> the problem in combination with 1 above.
>
> 3. Having played banjo now for almost 50 years, and now building and 
> playing 4 and 6-string archtop guitars, I think I have made an observation 
> about guitar tuning vs. plectrum or tenor banjo/guitar tuning that may 
> shed some light on your problem: Looking directly at the fret board (like 
> a normal chord diagram), most (but not all) guitar chords seem to have a 
> North East to South West diagonal "orientation" whereas tenor and plectrum 
> tuning results in more chords having a sort-of North West to South East 
> diagonal orientation. Having played banjo so long, I have a devil of a 
> time playing certain guitar chords, like the augmenteds. My fingers just 
> don't want to arrange themselves in the guitar orientation. This might 
> explain why your dead note is on the B string (2nd string). If you were to 
> try plectrum tuning, you might see a difference.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Scott Anthony
> Golden Gate Rhythm Machine
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joseph" <ezola at charter.net>
> To: <santh at pacbell.net>
> Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 1:45 PM
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] 17 vs 19 fret for ease of chording
>
>
>> I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts. I play dixieland in a band and 
>> notice my bar chords are difficult to play clearly at times. I tune to 
>> the guitar, and find my "B" string falls under my knuckle which makes a 
>> thud for a note. Chords that sound this way are usually, but not 
>> exclusively, on the first fret, such as Ab7 or F7. I try rolling my 
>> forefinger but this is difficult and puts a lot of stress on my finger. I 
>> play a 17-fret Gooodtime banjo by Deering. Would buying a 19-fret be 
>> easier to play? I switched to ghs plectrum light strings. At first this 
>> seemed to be easier, but again, the bar chords are "thuds." Any ideas?
>> Joe
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>
>
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