[Dixielandjazz] Clarification on discussion about playing on shipsfor free

Thu Feb 7 04:25:04 PST 2008

John (Wilder)

If you can write so clearly when "groggy" you must be superhuman when you're 
fully awake :-)

Thank you for your perspective.

I can guess that Steve and possibly one or two others will pick out the 
following as justification for further "deriding" :

>before the Dixieland festivals at sea began,
> he could often book Dixie bands on the ships for good money.  Since the
> festivals have proliferated on the ships, he has not been able to book 
> even
> one Dixie band direct with the cruise line, as they just tell him that if
> they need a Dixie band they'll just wait for a festival at sea and then 
> ask
> one of the performing bands to do and "extra" concert or two for free for
> the other passengers.

I do know of Uk musicians that get booked on non-jazz specific cruises, 
they tend to be in their 30s (Graham Hughes, Ben Cumming, Alan Beechy spring 
to mind; all fine musicians)  Americans, Jeff and Anne Barnhart (OK not 
Dixieland but classical/jazz fusion :-) ) also get a lot of cruise work in 
obscure locations.
Maybe the cruise lines prefer this younger image and just don't want to come 
out and say it.

Anyway on the recent JazzSea cruise the  whole ship was chartered, a gamble 
by the agents that seems to have paid off for them.  Everybody knew the deal 
beforehand and cash in lieu of accommodation for significant others wasn't 
on the table.  (NB not all the musicians amployed were male as Ginny 
hinted... obviously too subtly:-) )

This all started because Steve chose to "deride" those who play on the 
cruises,  several of those involved have amply justified their reasons for 
so doing. (not that justification should be required) Perhaps it's time to 
agree to differ.

Jude

Judy Eames
Kaminsky Connection
Aston, Oxfordshire
UK
www.judyeames.co.uk
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Wilder" <JohnWilder at Comcast.net>
To: <jude at judyeames.co.uk>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:13 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Clarification on discussion about playing on 
shipsfor free

> Hi list members,
>
>
>
> I'm John Wilder - mainly a lurker - often don't even get around to reading
> the list.  However, I've worked ships and also know many ship entertainers
> and musicians.  I do band arrangements (Charts) for ship entertainers.  I
> also owned a cruise travel agency for over ten years.  I read several of 
> the
> posts regarding playing jazz festivals at sea, and it seems that there is 
> a
> general misconception regarding the festival situation.
>
>
>
> I just returned to Sacramento this morning from playing five days at an
> Indian Casino in the Portland area, so please bear with me if I make
> spelling or grammar errors.  One tends to make errors when groggy from
> travel.  Anyway, on to my subject:
>
>
>
> Most of the jazz festivals at sea (probably ALL of the Dixieland 
> festivals)
> are NOT sponsored by the cruise line.  A travel agent books blocks of 
> cabins
> as group space.  With most group space, free cabins are given for every
> so-many cabins sold.  The travel agent then invites band members to go on
> the cruise without paying for the cabins in return for playing the 
> concerts.
> In many cases, the free cabins the band members receive are the cabins 
> that
> were given to the travel agent who put the group space contract together.
> (Jazz-Sea Cruises would be an example of such an agency.)
>
>
>
> With the contracted cabins held and the bands booked, the travel agency 
> then
> tries to entice enough jazz fans to go on the cruise and buy up their
> contracted cabins to earn the free "tour conductor" cabins they've 
> promised
> to the band members and also make a profit.
>
>
>
> The cruise line is NOT the employer of these jazz festival at sea band
> members - the travel agency is (or a promoter working through the travel
> agency, in some cases).  While I'm sure the cruise line knows the space 
> will
> be used to run a jazz festival, it's no different to them than if Toyota
> Corporation booked cabins to run seminars aboard and then asked for 
> meeting
> room space.  In general on a jazz cruise, the jazz concerts are not open 
> to
> the general public aboard, and a passenger needs an event badge to enter a
> concert.  The only difference is that at a land-based jazz festival you
> actually buy the badge.  With a jazz festival at sea, you get your badge 
> as
> part of the package by buying your cabin from the travel agency who is
> producing the festival.  If you buy your cabin on the same sailing from 
> any
> other travel agency, you would not receive your badge, and therefore could
> not attend the concerts.
>
>
>
> Someone mentioned contacting the cruise director and complaining that the
> musicians should be paid.  Using the scenario of Toyota booking space so
> they could run seminars, you would not complain to the cruise line that 
> the
> speakers at the closed Toyota event were unpaid.  They would just tell you
> that the Toyota event is a closed function in which they are merely using
> the ship space for private functions, and they have no control over what
> compensation is paid to the speakers at a private event.  After all, why
> would a cruise line pay musicians whose performances are unavailable to 
> most
> of the passengers?
>
>
>
> There are many musicians and entertainers on every ship who are employed 
> by
> the cruise line.  These musicians, however, do not play in the private 
> jazz
> festivals at sea concerts, but mainly in areas of the ship open to all
> passengers.  These are the only musicians for which it would do any good 
> to
> complain to the cruise line management about poor working conditions, pay,
> rules, etc.  As far as the cruise line is concerned, the jazz festival
> musicians (or the speakers for the hypothetical Toyota event) are just
> passengers like any other passenger on that cruise.
>
>
>
> If you have a problem with the musicians who participate in the festivals 
> at
> sea not getting paid, your problem is with the travel agency setting up 
> the
> festival - NOT with the cruise line.  Getting mad at the cruise line 
> because
> a private group doesn't pay musicians when they use their ship is somewhat
> akin to going to an Amway presentation at a local Denny's restaurant, and
> then getting mad at the restaurant because the Amway products were priced
> too high.
>
>
>
> I have no strong opinion one way or the other regarding whether the
> musicians should receive financial compensation in addition to the cabin 
> for
> them and a guest.  However that said, I will mention that my friend Jim
> Coston who has worked cruise ships as a headline act from New Orleans for
> over 25 years has told me that before the Dixieland festivals at sea 
> began,
> he could often book Dixie bands on the ships for good money.  Since the
> festivals have proliferated on the ships, he has not been able to book 
> even
> one Dixie band direct with the cruise line, as they just tell him that if
> they need a Dixie band they'll just wait for a festival at sea and then 
> ask
> one of the performing bands to do and "extra" concert or two for free for
> the other passengers.
>
>
>
> I hope this post helps to clear up any misconception regarding jazz
> festivals at sea.  Well, with that - I'll retreat back into "lurk-dom" for
> now.  Bye!
>
>
>
> John Wilder
>
> JohnWilder at Comcast.net
>
>
>
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