[Dixielandjazz] FW: FW: JazzSea Cruise

Sun Feb 3 16:55:21 PST 2008

Jim -I realize that scrambling for gigs forces many onto this road.

True but musicians don't choose this willingly.  We don't set the trends but 
are swept along by them.  There is barely enough work to keep up chops or 
not in a lot of cases.  You are right if you are implying that this is a 
struggle that most are having a tough time keeping up with.

Jim - I know some on DJML go out in this manner...Larry has mentioned often 
that
he does.  However, it seems to me on a proper cruise, they could go that bit
further & put musicians in place of machines.  Unfortunately, the general
audience doesn't even notice.  None of my non-musician friends notice, or
even understand my grumblings.  Shame.
________________________________________________
I wasn't going to reply to any of the freebee comments since I had done it 
several times before but since you brought it up ---- There are trends that 
I have talked about that have been taking place over the past 10 years or so 
and started with the first time someone took an electronic drum box to a 
gig.

I totally understand your feelings and I have had the exact same grumblings.

I had a really good circus gig going but was terminated because they down 
sized the band and went electronic. That cost me $600+ but what costs me 
more is guys that overvalue their work and I point to piano players 
specifically.

I got off the phone right before reading these posts with a band leader that 
is shutting down his band specifically because the piano players are asking 
$250 and the traffic simply won't bear it.  This is double what many sidemen 
think is pretty good money here.

I am so frustrated and tired of sub standard rhythm players and people that 
are frankly out of their mind that this is the reason that I book 
predominantly electronic.  This goes way beyond an extra $25 for cartage.  I 
like for people to rehearse when necessary to get some tightness.  No one 
wants to do this.  Years ago you could hire guys that just played and knew 
what they were doing but that really isn't the case today.  I played a gig 
recently with a live rhythm section that sounded more like a circle jerk 
falling down the stairs and individually they were good musicians.

As I see it these guys are doing it to themselves.  I may be holding the gun 
but they are pulling the trigger.  I'm getting to a point where I just don't 
care anymore and I wish they would hurry up.

Jim-- Unfortunately, the general audience doesn't even notice.

LW.  --- out of the mouth of babes !!! I did a Marti Gras gig yesterday and 
they liked me so well they hired me for breakfast on Tuesday morning.  I 
could ask the list how many of you are working three gigs on Tuesday?  (I 
got a call for a fourth but turned it down because I didn't want to put 
together a live group on short notice.)  You are absolutely 100% correct 
when you say that the general audience doesn't really notice.

They respond to entertainment.  We tell jokes, we talk about anything that 
is fun,  we tell them something about a tune.   We did have someone ask 
about what we were doing only because he is was so amazed that we didn't 
need paper music and everything was on the screen.  This guy was blown away 
and completely amazed by what we were doing.

I provide my customers with a clean cut well dressed performance that is 
colorful.  I use fine musicians that  are also entertainers.  The program we 
do is smooth and contains lots of vocals.  Lastly we provide this show at a 
better price for the customer which is always a winner and we make more for 
ourselves.  It may be the Wal-Mart approach but that's not bad if you are 
Wal-Mart.

I am a very fast learner and I learned that computers and other technology 
will put you out of business if you aren't careful.  The year I lost the 
$600 gig at the circus was the key pivot year for my electronic activities 
and made an impression on me.  I have made more than that back this Mardi 
Gras alone using the very same technology that dumped me before.  I will 
also state that I don't think that a single one of the musicians in that 
band is working today other than myself.

I will say again as I have multiple times before that I prefer playing with 
live people who know what they are doing.  This for a player is a great 
pleasure but and there is always a but.  That but is, if I insist on that I 
relegate myself to one of two things.  Playing at substandard rates or not 
playing.  I choose to do neither.

That brings up the large venues such as Musicals, Movies and Circuses.  They 
started it but should not have but then again they are the ones that can do 
it the easiest because the audiences are isolated from the musicians.  In 
the case of a musical and especially TV you can't even see the musicians 
most of the time.  The musicians have failed to effectively organize against 
it and simply lack the will.

I suggest that if you don't want this to happen is to first adapt to it in 
your own way and secondly and most importantly become entertainers and not 
just musicians.  People like that interaction with musicians and they really 
want to be entertained.  I entertain because I want to play not because I 
want to entertain and I use electronics for exactly the same reason.  My 
playing and the electronics that I use are only a small part of it and if 
you focus on that alone and become fixated by it you will not see the bigger 
picture.  Music is only a small part of it.  The ante in this game is 
playing good but the other guy just raised and you can't stand pat.  You 
have three choices call, raise or fold.  You just can't do nothing and 
survive.  Your move.
Larry
St.L
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Kashishian" <jim at kashprod.com>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:43 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] FW: FW: JazzSea Cruise

>
>>Have a great cruise and I hope some of the music will be to your taste,
> Jude
> Judy Eames
>
> Thanks, Judy.  But, I'm not expecting much with the music.  What I've 
> heard
> mostly on ships has been a singer, pianist & a "boom/chicka with strings"
> machine.  Alright, the larger ships have up to a 12 piece band in the
> showroom, and you'll get a nite or two of big band jazz, but the lounges 
> are
> all small groups...and, the reason for this post....mostly  electronically
> backed groups.
>
> I know some on DJML go out in this manner...Larry has mentioned often that
> he does.  However, it seems to me on a proper cruise, they could go that 
> bit
> further & put musicians in place of machines.  Unfortunately, the general
> audience doesn't even notice.  None of my non-musician friends notice, or
> even understand my grumblings.  Shame.
>
> I've noticed that it is ourselves that have caused the decline.  Ok, that,
> and economics.  But, the very bands that say, "right we can give you 5 
> guys,
> or we can give you 3 guys and a box for less cash" that has driven us down
> this road.  I realize that scambling for gigs forces many onto this road.
> My only comment is that it is a shame, for the musicians & the actual 
> sound
> of the music.
>
> Jim
>
>
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