[Dixielandjazz] Bratislava Hot Serenaders

Mon Mar 12 16:16:37 PST 2007

 Every once in a blue moon I read a post on one of these mailing lists that is so accurate, so dead on, so free of hidden agendas that it prods me from my sloth-like lethargy into action. Such was Ittzes Tamas' post on the Bratislava Band.

 The comment that was so damn accurate, IMHO, was:
 Well, Bix, Venuti, Rollini, Charmichael and

> others played in those bands. Who knows the difference between the best

> dance bands and jazz bands of the era? In many cases they were the same.Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! In one well written sentence (in a language which was probably not your native tongue) you hit the nail on the proverbial head. 

 Although the majority of dance bands to which America became attached were of the “sweet” variety, many carried a musician who could play “hot.” One needn’t listen any further for verifying documentation than to certain late 20s recordings of Hal Kemp, Ben Bernie, Ted Weems, Nat Shilkret, Abe Lyman and Coon-Sanders, among others. By no stretch of the imagination could such units be called “jazz bands.” They played the popular music of the day – Broadway and Tin Pan Alley tunes, hokum pieces, novelties and songs from the emerging Hollywood musicals – yet did, on occasion, affect certain jazz mannerisms. On another level was a clutch of dance orchestras which included small cadres of jazz musicians. Some that come quickly to mind: Ben Pollack (Benny Goodman, Jimmy McPartland, Bud Freeman); Jean Goldkette and Paul Whiteman (Bix Beiderbecke, Frankie Trumbauer, Joe Venuti); Ray Miller (Muggsy Spanier, Eddie Lang). It is these brackish waters between sweet and jazz that the Bratislava Serenaders celebrate. To call them Mickey Mouse or cartoon music does not only them a disservice, but all the men whom we idolize and venerate as well - Bix, Tram, Goldkette, Pollack et al. 

 I've just come from the Bratislava Boys' website and listened to some of their sample mp3s. I just did a benefit concert where I put together a 10-piece dance orchestra and played some of the very same charts. Would that my American musicians could play their indigenous music as well, as stylistically correct and with as much zeal as these men and women did.

 I can't believe that we are even having this discussion on a list which is supposedly populated with people who love jazz, are interested in its history and who know that these very notes played by this wonderful band are the notes that changed music forever. C'mon guys. You yourselves call it, Our Kind Of Music. Don't pigeon-hole it, or denigrate it. 

 So, Tamas, if you ever visit New York look me up. I am in the phone book in a town called Massapequa which is probably as hard for you to say as it is for me to say Kecskemet. It would be my pleasure to buy someone a drink who loves jazz and who can tell the difference between cartoon music and late 20s-early 30s dance music. 

 Then, if we feel nostalgic for this thread, we can stand around and watch someone beat a dead horse.

 Ray

 -----Original Message-----
 From: bohem at fibermail.hu
 To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
 Sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 6:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Bratislava Hot Serenaders

  Dear listmates,

Thanks God I missed the original postings about the Bratislava Hot
Serenaders - it seems to be quite a flaming even now. Please, Steve and
everyone, accept my 10 cents here:

I have invited the Bratislava Hot Serenaders to my festival twice and we
most probably will have them again next year. First of all, let me tell
you that I strongly think that they are playing jazz. But I also think
that the original recordings that they are mostly copying (Goldkette,
Whiteman etc.) are jazz. Well, Bix, Venuti, Rollini, Charmichael and
others played in those bands. Who knows the difference between the best
dance bands and jazz bands of the era? In many cases they were the same.
(I'm not talking about "society dance" bands.) Well, Armstrong was Mr.
Jazz himself, everybody seems to agree in this - and he played lots of
pre-arranged, not-improvised charts, sweet shit with lots of strings
etc. and still we think that it was jazz - maybe only because of him.
Was the New Orleans Rhythm Kings jazz? Blacks, creoles. And they played
the very same (and not very jazzy) solos on three or even more tracks of
Tin Roof Blues, for example.

I had the privilege to be invited to play two tunes with the Bratislava
Hot Serenaders (and not Bratislave, Steve, they are not slaves). Juraj
Bartos, leader of the band was VERY strict about phrasing and wanted
everything to sound the same as on the original recordings. So when I
wanted to play something a little more jazzy on the fiddle, he said "NO"
- and I knew what he meant. And yes, it was better then. Occasionally,
they leave space for individual, improvised solos but they are always
within the idiom. And not many can do this. Being strict about these
kinds of things is the secret of their greatness. They sound exactly as
the original recordings - but I have never felt that they were just
preserving the era; they always re-created it for us who never had the
chance to experience it ourselves. By the way, most band members can
play improvised music and Juraj, who is not only leader but a great
trumpet player, is a very good be-bop and free jazz musician as well.
And he also plays classical music in orchestras, too, especially
contemporary music. And he is a GREAT musician, because he knows the
borders of the idiom he has to stay within musically. And that is very
important. If you break the rules, you play shit. (Yes, I know that
pioneers always broke the rules and never cared for the rules - but you
always need boundaries as also pioneers erected then their new
boundaries in a newly created style, think of Bird and many others.)

Steve, you wrote about jazz:
-------
What is it? Like Louis Armstrong said; "Jazz is what you are." How's
that for Catholic?
-------
Well, if Juraj Bartos and his musicians feel that the music, they play
and recreate, means them, then it is jazz. By the way, if I can
assimilate myself into Bach's music sometimes, or identify myself with
it - just as I really can - is it jazz? I think that definitions can't
help, whoever said them. As soon as you put it down on paper, it can be
a good basis for misunderstanding.

And, finally, sorry to write this, Steve but I think, I have to tell you
now that as a DJML member, who is mostly just lurking, I am not very
happy to read your arrogant comments from time to time. I enjoy most of
your postings but when you get personal you intend to act as someone who
always knows better. I am VERY critical myself, too but I wish you would
accept others more. You know that we are many different people here on
this list from many different countries with many different views, so
please, don't be a judge. Jerry and John are among the most
knowledgeable members of the list - you can have different views and
express them as gentlemen. Please.

Thanks for listening,

Tamas from Hungary
_________________________________________________
Tamas ITTZES
violin teacher, ragtime pianist, festival organizer
Bohem Ragtime Jazz Band
Kecskemet Jazz Foundation
Mailing address: H-6001 KECSKEMET, Pf. 652., Hungary
Phone: +36(20)82-447-82
E-mails: tamas at bohemragtime.com, bohem at fibermail.hu
Web site: http://www.bohemragtime.com
_________________________________________________

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