[Dixielandjazz] Kid Ory

[Bill Haesler]

> Wonder what Bill Haesler has to say about the date of Kid Ory's first
> recording.
> If we accept July 1922 as the date of the Sunshine label for the Ory
> recording, then it was not Kid Ory's "first" recording. His band backed
> blues singer Ruth Lee on a recording that is dated as June 1922. I 
> think he
> also recorded in June 1922 as the backup up band for another blues 
> singer
> Roberta Dudley.

Dear Steve,
I had intended to reply to this fast-moving thread anyway, so here goes.
Floyd Levin was a respected jazz writer/researcher and I am not about 
to contradict his excellent detective work on this subject, 
particularly as it is backed by extensive research and interviews with 
the Nordskogs and Reb Spikes. And my friend Dick Broadie agrees with me!
Floyd has convincingly sorted out the conflicting accounts on pages 
11--24 of his fine book "Classic Jazz', mentioned by Stan Brager. (I 
have an autographed copy!)
June 1921 seems fine with me for the Ory recordings, including those by 
the two singers.
Mike Meddings' link to Hal Smith's fine biog of Ben Borders (the 
drummer on the session) unfortunately provides no additional evidence 
to disprove the earlier date. And, as we know, memories are an 
unreliable source.
Brian Wood has also mentioned his own, more recent, personal lapse in 
this regard.
If I may digress. I've found that our wives are an untouched source for 
our early memory of jazz incidents. Jess often corrects me with "No, 
that was when Andrew had the mumps, so it must have been 1959." Or, 
when identifying the date of a photograph: "That would have been taken 
in 1953 at Kuzz's mid-year BBQ because I have on the spotted dress I 
bought with my birthday money that year."
Like Floyd, I've followed the Ory Sunshine Band recording date with 
interest from the late 40s when the band sides appeared on reissues 78s 
and believe that discographal information also suggests the earlier 
date. As we know, discography is a great way of confirming or 
correcting the memory of jazz events.
Based on the recording balance I believe that the six titles, two each 
by Ory, Ruth Lee and Roberta Dudley were all recorded by Nordskog in 
the one studio on the one occasion (which may have taken a day or two) 
before being sent East for processing and pressing by Arto, as agreed 
by all parties.
The Spikes Brothers were the publishers for the six tunes and, as has 
been mentioned, issued the Nordskog pressing with their Sunshine label 
pasted over original Nordskog pressings.
The Allan Sutton link kindly provided by Mike Meddings shows the two 
labels for which Anton Crouch has pointed out that the Nordskog label 
for "Society Blues" indicates "established in 1921" with the name 
"Nordskog Phonograph Recording Co." and quotes Allan Sutton as saying 
that the Nordskog Phonograph Recording Company was officially 
incorporated in May 1922.
But Anton didn't follow through with the question that if the record 
was issued after May 1922 why doesn't the label say Nordskog Phonograph 
Recording Company Inc.?
Nordskog (started in 1921) put out 27 records over a two-year period 
covering a wide range of music from tenors to the early Abe Lyman and 
Herb Weidofft orchs. They even issued by arrangement (as Nordskog 3013) 
an Original Memphis Five record of "I Wish I Could Shimmy Like My 
Sister Kate/Pacific Coast Blues" made in New York on 14 June 1922, the 
month suggested for the Ory session(s).
Although in those days most record companies could have a record on the 
street within a week of recording, not so with early Nordskog sessions 
which initially sent the material across the US for manufacture. The 
time taken and the earlier Nordskog catalogue numbers for the six Ory 
sides (3007-3009) would therefore suggest an earlier recording date.
Unfortunately, as is the case for the first ODJB recording argument, 
there are no valid matrix series for Nordskog to confirm the recording 
order for its catalogue.
Kind regards,
Bill.