[Dixielandjazz] IAJE - TJEN - Some thoughts.

tcashwigg at aol.com tcashwigg at aol.com
Sat Jan 20 22:47:46 PST 2007


With all due respect, as I mentioned on this thread earlier Perhaps 
indeed you are one of the exceptions to this problem, but how long sir 
has it been since you retired and have you been back into the system to 
see who and what is teaching in many of todays classrooms?

Mike is a current Student with first hand knowledge, and Larry is a 
Teacher, so they both have some pretty good insight in discussing this 
problem they may not exist where you live but it is very wide spread 
all over the country and was stated so at the IAJE conference by a very 
well respected Professional as well Gordon Wycliffe.

I have witnessed the products of some of California's teachers first 
hand and they are simply useless and better suited to teach Burger 
flipping at McDonlads than most of them will ever be at playing music 
of any genre let alone good jazz.   Some of these Jazz music teachers 
also have bands that sound pretty much as bad as their pupils too.

When I attended high school sir, we had some very good teachers, but in 
today's world most American kids have to go to college for four years 
to get a high school education.   There is a Problem whether or not you 
wish to believe it, which is why some of us keep going on and on about 
it and you seem to want to defend those that we have first hand 
knowledge and experience with and are calling out for accountability 
 from.   We would like NOTHING more than to be able to once again 
RESPECT TEACHERS, but what they keep cranking out with Teaching 
credentials these days are basically not worth a damn.

Perhaps if You came out of retirement you could help train some new 
ones correctly. :))

The future of this Jazz is in the hands of all of us on this list and 
our peers, NOBODY else is gong to step up to the plate and do it, mostl 
y because they are simply not qualified to do it.

Sad but TRUE.


-----Original Message-----
From: macjazz at se.rr.com
To: mike at railroadstjazzwest.com; dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Sent: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] IAJE - TJEN - Some thoughts.

    And as a long retired music teacher, I feel just the opposite.  I 
know any
number of highly proficient professional musicians who couldn't teach 
to play Come to Jesus (in all whole notes.)  There is very little
correlation between the two skills.


Martin D. McKay (Designated listener.)

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 6:47 PM
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] IAJE - TJEN - Some thoughts.


I think some of it also has to do with the fact that's it's far too 
easy to
become a music teacher. It has everything to do with booksmarts and 
to do with being a proficient musician.
You just have to be proficient in teaching another student another
instrument. As long as you can pass the required state exams and have at
least a 'B' average in your music courses you'll probably be hired as a

I know a girl at my college whos primary instrument is piano.
She can play classical music at what would be considered "ok"
college level playing. I asked her how she planned to teach her students
jazz and jazz improvisation when she had never played it or even heard 
of it. After a long pause she said "I guess I'd better learn to play it
before August. If not I'll just have them listen to the cds that come 
the charts."

She graduates in May. She's also been student teaching since fall of 
'Nuff said.

Mike (who wonders why music colleges even bother with some gene

Larry Walton Entertainment - St. Louis wrote:
> Mike said- It would also help if the teacher knew about jazz
> improvisation. My former teachers did not.
> This is a universal problem with H.S. music teachers.  When I got 
> college I already had played professionally for several years.  That 
> I was making money and for a high school kid it was a lot.  I found 
> I got to college that what I had been doing and continued to do was 
> acceptable in their eyes and was seen as damaging to my future as a
> classical musician and teacher.
> Teachers weren't supposed to hang around in bars and clubs with other
> low life.  Even my father in law sat me down and lectured me about 
> as a teacher, I had to watch how I acted and who I associated with.  
> would have thought I was studying for the priesthood or at least to 
be a
> missionary.

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