[Dixielandjazz] Rock and Roll is Jazz - Duke Ellington

[Hal Vickery]

I'd also add that early rock 'n' roll was a whole lot closer to jazz that
any of the current forms.  Heck, Al Sears (Ellington alumnus) made a pretty
good living playing tenor sax solos on a lot of records and in personal
appearances by early rock 'n' roll performers.  

What distinguished early rock 'n' roll from earlier jump blues and r&b bands
was the preeminence of the electric guitar as a major solo instrument, and a
whole lot of that, I think (although I'm too young to have first hand
memory), had a lot to do with Chuck Berry's early success.

So from the perspective of the early '60s (pre-British invasion where almost
every band seeme to have two guitars, electric bass, and drums), Ellington
wasn't all that far from the mark.

Hal Vickery 

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-bounces at ml.islandnet.com] On Behalf Of Stan Brager
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:56 AM
To: Hal Vickery
Cc: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Rock and Roll is Jazz - Duke Ellington

Bob;

I have to agree with Steve on this one. Duke was probably looking to the
roots of Rock and Roll which are the blues. Certainly, he didn't think that
all Rock and Roll is jazz. My guess is that he was looking at Rock And Roll
as a form of music and that jazz could be written within that framework.

Herbie Mann, Dick Hyman, and many other jazz musicians utilized the Rock and
Roll form in recordings.

Stan
Stan Brager

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert S. Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Rock and Roll is Jazz - Duke Ellington


> Thanks for the info Steve.
>
> Just goes to show you, nobody is perfect.  Boy did Ellington have it
> wrong...
>
> He certainly was not around long enough to hear what is being passed off
as
> music these days.
>
> I'll bet if he had lived so long, he would certainly recant that
statement.
>
> --Bob Ringwald
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
> To: "Bob Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com>
> Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:38 PM
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Rock and Roll is Jazz - Duke Ellington
>
>
> > "Robert S. Ringwald" <robert at ringwald.com>
> >
> >> Steve Barbone wrote:
> >>
> >> (snip)
> >>> Duke Ellington said more than once in the 1960s that rock & roll
> >>> was the most updated form of jazz.
> >> ()snip)
> >>
> >> Steve,
> >>
> >> Where did he say that?  In what context?
> >>
> >> I am sure he could have made a misstatement . . . . Or could you call
it
> >> a
> >> mistake???
> >>
> >> I made a mistake once and now I have a wife and 3 kids...
> >
> > No mistake on Ellington's part or mine, Bob.
> >
> > The source is a 2 page article that Duke Ellington wrote, in "Music
> > Journal"
> > March 1962 on pages 31 and 96. He was asked the question, "Where Is Jazz
> > Going." which is the title of the article.
> >
> > The relevant part of that article says: (quoting Duke below)
> >
> > "Recently I was asked whether I felt jazz had moved a great distance
away
> > from its folk origins. With the present state of Rock 'n' Roll music I
> > don't
> > know how anyone can even consider asking such a question! Rock 'n' Roll
is
> > the most raucous form of jazz, beyond a doubt; it maintains a link with
> > the
> > folk origins, and I believe that no other form of jazz has ever been
> > accepted so enthusiastically by so many."
> >
> > "This is probably an easy medium of musical semantics for the people to
> > assimilate. I'm not trying to imply by this that Rock 'n' Roll shows any
> > single trend, or indicates the only direction in which things are
moving.
> > it
> > is simply one aspect of many."
> >
> > "I have written a number of Rock 'n' Roll things myself, but am saving
> > them
> > for possible use in a show." Etc., etc., etc.
> >
> > The article, while a bit rambling is certainly interesting and
recommended
> > reading. I believe it was also published in "The Duke Ellington Reader",
> > Oxford University Press but have not checked to verify it. Too late in
the
> > evening.
> >
> > Of special interest to me were his closing statements: "If it sounds
good
> > it
> > is successful; if it doesn't it has failed" . . . "And let's not worry
> > about
> > whether the result is jazz or this or that type of performance. Let's
just
> > say that what we're all trying to create, in one way or another, is
> > music."
> >
> > That is my point in a nutshell. Jazz, ill defined as it may be, is in
the
> > ears of the individual listener.  "Jazz" does not reside exclusively in
> > the
> > brain of some academician or "knowledgeable fan" who thinks he/she
knows,
> > and can therefore tell others what jazz is, or is not, who plays it and
> > who
> > does not, what instruments should be used, etc.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve Barbone
> >
> > PS. Those who were around in 1962 will remember that all sorts of "jazz"
> > segments were happening. Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, Thelonious
Monk,
> > Eric Dolphy etc., etc., etc. Ellington never mentions them in his
article,
> > just Rock 'n' Roll. Interesting that he related R & R to folk jazz
roots.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
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> > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>


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