[Dixielandjazz] Who is BMI?

tcashwigg at aol.com tcashwigg at aol.com
Tue Apr 17 13:15:39 PDT 2007


Hey Tommy me  boy:   You won't get back the copyright fees either :))

Send me those OKOm songs, if I like 'em and record 'em I'll be happy to 
pay you the royalties direct  no formula needed, no dues to pay, no 
deductions for expenses of administration or to run a giant 
bloodsucking organization that will more than likely never communicate 
with you again except to send you an invoice for your annual dues and 
tell you how much you need them to PROTECT you and collect your Money 
that you will never get.   Heloo  Helloooo  Hellooo  Tommy who are you 
a member?,  hold on sir we are trying to find you in  our enormous 
database,  hellooo hello   are you sure you are a member ???    This 
will take a few more years of research to see if we owe you any money, 
please call back in ten years if you do not start to receive royalty 
checks by then.   Thank you and Have a Nice Day.

These organizations were all set up and formed to supposedly take care 
of the often taken advantage of songwriters and composers, but were 
quickly taken over and controlled by some very dubious characters who 
now had a way to legitimately steal other songwriters and composers 
material through a complex ever changing legal system or rules statutes 
and regulations all created by them for them to get more and more and 
more every year for their own interest and charge the unsuspecting 
membership the freight for doing so.

That's why I play the Hits and don't Make or write the Hits ,  not 
worth the time money and effort and one less thing I have to worry 
about being screwed out of in my life.  :))   Damned if I will pay them 
to steal it from me.   I never liked the rules of That game and still 
don't, and I have been on both sides of it.  Didn't collect on either 
side but I sure got to watch them throw away a lot of money and live 
pretty high on the hog off the memberships money too.

Cheers,  Tom  Wiggins   who got along without 'em before and I'll get 
along without 'em now.



-----Original Message-----
From: tbelmo at hotmail.com
To: Tcashwigg at aol.com
Cc: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Who is BMI?

   List-Message-Recipient: tcashwigg at aol.com 
 Hi Scott, 
 
  I have composed some tunes, which I have copyrighted, but I never 
joined ASCAP or BMI. I looked into it once or twice but something 
prevented me from joining. Probably the fact that the songs I wrote 
were OKOM, targeted for a select audience, and most likely would never 
provide much of a return in royalties from those organizations, 
certainly not as much as the dues I would have to pay. But you ask a 
good question. I am curious too if there are ASCAP or BMI member on 
this list. I would like to hear what they have to say. 
 
 Tom B. 
 ---------------- 
 >From: "Scott Anthony" <santh at pacbell.net> 
 >To: Tom Belmessieri <TBELMO at hotmail.com> 
 >CC: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
 >Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Who is BMI? 
 >Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:53:55 -0700 
 > 
 >List-Message-Recipient: tbelmo at hotmail.com 
  >Is there anyone on this list (lurker or contributor) who is a member 
of >ASCAP or BMI? There must be some musicians who have written tunes 
that are >subscribers. Maybe if the membership of these organizations 
starts to speak >out, some things might change. 
 > 
 >Scott Anthony 
 > 
  >----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Anthony" 
<santh at pacbell.net> 
 >To: <santh at pacbell.net> 
 >Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
 >Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:58 PM 
 >Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Who is BMI? 
 > 
 > 
 >>List-Message-Recipient: santh at pacbell.net 
  >>Here is what I replied off list to Phil Eggers (who with his wife 
Gerri, >>by the way are VERY enthusiastic fans of OKOM) about his 
outrage with >>ASCAP and BMI: 
 >> 
  >>It is always the location that pays the licensing fees, not the 
musicians. >>This is part of the reason our era of music is dying out 
in terms of live >>performance in clubs/bars. Owners and managers of 
great places to play are >>not willing to pay the licensing fees, so 
live music is out. It seems like >>ASCAP and BMI and others are 
shooting themselves in the foot really. If >>live music is put out of 
business in an area, one of their revenue streams >>dries up. I don't 
really understand their logic. 
 >> 
  >>I ran into this problem last year when I tried to play one night a 
week at >>our local pizza place. They did not want to pay anything 
because then they >>would want to advertize, and as soon as a venue 
advertizes "Live Music" >>ASCAP, BMI, and at least one other licensing 
organization turns up >>demanding licensing fees. Between all three, 
the fees for Goat Hill Pizza >>would have been about $1000 per year. 
There does not seem to be any kind >>of sliding scale, or anything. 
Another problem at this location was that >>the owner was already 
paying licensing fees to the same organizations for >>playing 
background music on his CD player. 
 >> 
  >>It's all very well and good that composers and their estates and 
other >>copyright owners (now usually some big corporation like Time 
Warner or >>Sony) get paid for public performances of their music, but 
ASCAP and BMI >>base their payments to composers on local current 
airtime which means in >>our case, when I play an evening of 
compositions/songs written almost >>entirely before 1940, some #1 hit 
rock band that has a lot of radio air >>time gets a percentage of what 
the venue has to pay in licensing fees >>because the music we play has 
literally or practically zero play time in >>our area. 
 >> 
  >>It used to be that a representative would come to a club and 
"sample" the >>music so that the fees might at least be sent in the 
general direction of >>the true copyright owners. 
 >> 
 >>Here are some interesting articles: 
 >> 
  
 >>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/
12/03/BUGL13CH5H26.DTL 
 >>http://www.woodpecker.com/writing/essays/royalty-politics.html 
 >> 
  >>Last year I thought of a possible solution to this problem: start a 
>>Traditional Jazz Licensing Fee fund. Bands can 
  >>apply to this fund to get full or partial fee payments that 
locations can >>use to pay off ASCAP and BMI. I haven't thought through 
the details but it >>might be a possibility. 
 >> 
 >>Scott Anthony 
 >>Golden Gate Rhythm Machine 
 >> 
  >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Barbone" 
>><barbonestreet at earthlink.net >>To: <santh at pacbell.net> 
 >>Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com> 
 >>Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:54 AM 
 >>Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Who is BMI? 
 >> 
 >> 
 >>>List-Message-Recipient: santh at pacbell.net 
 >>>sharp-b at clearwire.net asked about BMI (polite snip) 
 >>> 
  >>>>Just exactly who are these people who show up and demand this 
money 
  >>>>and level the fines? Do they actually have the legal authority to 
do 
 >>>>so? ?Are they from out of town, just sweeping through, threatening 
 >>>>people with fines, hoping they'll pay up?? 
 >>> 
  >>>BMI is a performing rights organization which collects license fees 
on 
  >>>behalf of songwriters, composers, and music publishers that it 
represents 
  >>>and distributes them as royalties to those members who works have 
been 
  >>>performed. They represent 300,000 + composers/publishers and have 
>>>6,500,000 
 >>>songs under their control. ASCAP probably has more. 
 >>> 
  >>>They issue licenses to various users of music like radio and TV 
stations, 
  >>>internet music providers, ringtones, nightclubs, discos, 
restaurants, 
  >>>jukeboxes, live concerts, etc. They then track the public 
performances of 
  >>>members music and collect/distribute royalties to them. Easily 
tracked in 
 >>>large venues, radio, TV, Downloads, etc. 
 >>> 
 >>>So far, so good. HOWEVER. In restaurant, or other small venue live 
  >>>performances it is impossible for them to track whose music was 
played. >>>So 
  >>>they charge a flat fee to those venues which is calculated on venue 
size, 
 >>>and number of performances per year. 
 >>> 
 >>>ASCAP and SESAC operate in similar fashion. 
 >>> 
 >>>Who get those live unaudited Royalties? Probably only the top 
  >>>composers/publishing houses. Probably not the composer or publisher 
of >>>the 
 >>>songs we play in the Dixieland genre. 
 >>> 
  >>>Fees, start around $600 per year for a blanket license plus $35 per 
live 
  >>>performance. In essence, assuming all 3 companies go after a venue 
that >>>has 
  >>>OKOM on weekends, that is $1800 for the three licenses and $35 
times 3, 
  >>>times 104 or $10,920 per year, plus the $1800 for a total of 
$12,720 >>>payable 
  >>>by the restaurant, or pizza hut, or what ever. Maybe that's why 
Shakey's 
  >>>quit having banjo groups perform? Who needs to spend an extra 
$12,720 >>>above 
 >>>the band cost when you can use radio music without charge. 
 >>> 
  >>>BMI represents 300,000 + composers, publishers and has 6,500,000 
songs >>>under 
 >>>their control. ASCAP has more. 
 >>> 
  >>>That's why public domain songs are important. Any song published 
before 
  >>>1/1/23 is no longer copyrighted and therefore not subject to 
license >>>charges 
  >>>of any kind. However, since Congressman Sonny Bono got a copyright 
>>>extension 
  >>>law passed before he skied into a tree, NO SONGS THAT ARE 
COPYRIGHTED >>>AFTER 
  >>>1/21/23 WILL ENTER PUBLIC DOMAIN UNTIL AFTER 2019. (Because under 
the >>>Bono 
  >>>law, songs copyrighted between 1923 and 1978 are now protected for 
95 >>>years. 
 >>>So those 1923 songs, plus 95 more years of protection = 1/1/2019) 
 >>> 
  >>>You can probably bet the farm that when 2019 arrives, some "poor" 
soul 
  >>>crying about intellectual property will lobby Congress for 
additional 
  >>>extensions. It is a shameless rip-off. But it is also quite legal 
and if 
  >>>push comes to shove, BMI et al will most always win in court should 
they 
 >>>bring a suit and the fines are a lot larger than the licenses. 
 >>> 
  >>>Partial solution is to carry a list of public Domain Songs with you 
and >>>play 
  >>>them, and or write and play your own music. Show the list to Guido 
from >>>BMI 
 >>>when he shows up to check a venue. :-) VBG. 
 >>> 
  >>>BTW, songs copyrighted after 1978 are protected for the life of the 
last 
 >>>living author plus 70 years. 
 >>> 
  >>>Now you know why Michael Jackson bought the rights to a lot of 
Beatles 
 >>>tunes. They constitute a money factory for him. 
 >>> 
 >>>Cheers, 
 >>>Steve Barbone 
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >>>_______________________________________________ 
 >>>Dixielandjazz mailing list 
 >>>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
 >>>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz 
 >>> 
 >> 
 >> 
 >> 
 >>_______________________________________________ 
 >>Dixielandjazz mailing list 
 >>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
 >>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz 
 >> 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >_______________________________________________ 
 >Dixielandjazz mailing list 
 >Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com 
 >http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz 
 
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