[Dixielandjazz] remembering the lyrics

Sun Apr 8 11:36:33 PDT 2007

I tell my students to listen to good singers if they want to play well but I 
don't agree that learning the words has more than a superficial impact on 
phrasing.  Phrasing is a whole science to its self and while not entirely 
separate from words is not at all dependent on them.  If it were then no one 
would be able to phrase music that didn't have them.  The ability to phrase 
on an instrument (or voice) is way past something as simplistic as knowing 
the words.  That's not to say that musical phrasing on  an instrument is 
totally different from the words but I just think that it's a higher order. 
You mentioned several of the greats and their phrasing.  Then if I memorize 
the words and the notes somehow I will automatically phrase correctly?  Far 
from it.

The first time anyone talked to me about phrasing or even used the word was 
in my third year of college.  I was studying under a former player of the 
Memphis Symphony.  She and I discussed it at some length.  But digressing a 
lot my very first teacher who was an old Italian guy who played in the St. 
Louis Symphony said that the sax was most like singing.  I never forgot 
that.  It was the best thing he ever taught.

To learn to phrase, use dynamics and vibrato and a bunch of other things you 
should listen to high quality singers and it helps IMHO if you turn off the 
words and listen to the voice as an instrument.

I also think that you can't really teach phrasing.  There may be but I don't 
know of a single book dedicated to the art of phrasing yet this is the heart 
and soul of music.  You might be able to demonstrate it but I defy anyone to 
teach someone to sing, phrase and interpret like those you mentioned.  If 
that were possible we would all be great.   A 10 year old kid might have it 
whereas a 50 year old might not have a clue.

You said:> Believe it or not, there are a lot of musicians who learn the 
words to a tune;

I think they would be better advised to climb inside of the music and listen 
to each nuance of volume, tone, color, vibrato and many other tiny things. 
It doesn't hurt anything to learn the words and if it helps OK but I listen 
to music differently and words are only the icing on the cake.  A musician 
has to be like a method actor and become the tune.  I am working with a 
singer right now who sings the words and notes wonderfully but when she's 
done you don't have anything.  She just doesn't connect with the listener 
even though everything is technically correct.  She says nothing most of the 
time.  Sometimes I get her to really feel the music but then the next time 
she regresses to the same old stuff.

One of the problems with not learning words is that you can lose the ability 
to learn words which to me are like telephone numbers and other strings of 
endless nonsense.  Don't think that I am commenting on the quality of the 
words but they make little sense to me in context with about the same as 
reciting telephone numbers.

I have a wildly varying ability to remember words to tunes, chord 
progressions, street or person names and telephone numbers but I can 
remember other complex sequences in computer programming and often 20 or 
more very intricate steps to do the artwork that I do.  I also remember and 
memorize  music fairly quickly.  That's why I'm married to a woman who 
remembers telephone numbers, people and often most importantly street names 
and sequences of streets.  A recurring nightmare is that I will have a 
wreck, be hurt, call the 911 operator and she asks me where I am and what 
street I'm on.  OOPS!
Larry
St. Louis
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike" <mike at railroadstjazzwest.com>
To: "Larry Walton" <larrys.bands at charter.net>
Cc: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] remembering the lyrics

> Believe it or not, there are a lot of musicians who learn the words to a 
> tune; it helps with phrasing. Whenever I am learning a new tune I first 
> learn the lyrics. I usually do this by listening to a vocalist sing it. 
> Frank Sinatra is one of my favs but you can't go wrong with Ella 
> Fitzgerald or many others. Have you ever heard how Sarah Vaughn sings 
> 'Summertime'? Listen to how she milks every single word getting everything 
> she can out of it. That's how to really learn and phrase a tune.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> Cebuisle2 at aol.com wrote:
>> Larry's recent post on his singing reminded me of my own inabilty to 
>> remember all the lyrics to tunes. I too seldom listen to the vocals in 
>> recorded music.
>>  Used to have a tenor sax man originally from the Bronx who could sing 
>> every tune ever written, or at least he was never stumped when a  request 
>> came from the dance floor. He was of Italian origin, and could do  the 
>> lyrics in either English, or switch easily to Italian! Used to amaze  the 
>> heck out of me ! Read somewhere that Ol Satch couldn't always remember 
>> the lyrics either,  which led him to scat his way through many a song.
>>  Ted   ( lyrically challenged)
>
>
>
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