[Dixielandjazz] Preservation ? Creativity? Rule # 1

Thu May 18 15:06:35 PDT 2006

Well there are some rules and copying wasn't what I was talking about.  But 
staying in the lines which are staying in the form and doing jazz that is 
appropriate to the style seems to be OK to me.  When someone starts playing 
free form for example in the middle of a Trad tune it's inappropriate but by 
the same token it might be a kick ass solo in that form.  Then I really 
haven't heard many trumpet players doing solos as a tuba player does them.

Don't bother me with all this free love stuff.  If you didn't play within 
the rules you simply wouldn't have been in music this long.  Experimentation 
and Jazz go hand in hand and I'm sure that the first solos did sound 
presumptuous.  People liked what they heard so it caught on.

Creating a new form is different than mindlessly breaking rules because you 
think it's cute.  A good example of someone breaking the rules and creating 
new forms which by the way sadly didn't catch on was Dave Brubeck.  His 
"Take 5" and the other tunes on that album were groundbreaking and also rule 
breaking.  The only other "popular" works that I can think of right now is 
J.C. Superstar that used a lot of unusual rhythms.

You follow rules such as more or less uniform tempos,  standard keys, forms 
such as AABA,   Now break those three in a string of tunes and you won't 
have an audience except for the drunk at the end of the bar who doesn't know 
you are just trying out the latest key from Afghanistan and are in 5 and you 
aren't using a form.  So don't make me tired with all this I don't follow 
rules stuff.

Having said that I will repeat - a musician can stay within a style and 
create music that everyone will enjoy that is different each time.  The 
Bobcat illustration is a good one I think.

At least you and I agree that we shouldn't copy someone else.  How boring it 
would be if every Artist painted the same picture over and over even if the 
original artist is yourself.
Larry
St. Louis
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Preservation ? Creativity? Rule # 1

>
> "Larry Walton <larrys.bands at charter.net> wrote: (polite snip)
>
>> Preservation shouldn't suffer as long as you are in the style and are
>> abiding by the rules of the style.  If you are playing traditional 
>> Dixieland
>> and interject the most original best 1950's or smooth jazz solo that 
>> exists
>> you will be mucking it up because it isn't appropriate.  Romping into 
>> swing
>> is the same thing although because they are closer in time is somewhat 
>> more
>> acceptable to my ear.  The point is, If the old guys were playing 
>> original
>> licks (within their style) then if we play in the style why can't we play
>> original licks too?  That's the difficulty that we younger (than 100 )
>> musicians face.  After hearing swing my whole life and playing with early
>> rock bands then switching to society music and big band jazz it becomes
>> extremely difficult to play originally in this style which has more 
>> rules.
>> My hat is off to the guy (or lady) who can preserve this jazz and still 
>> be
>> original and creative.
>
> Permit me to offer another take on that.
>
> I agree that if you are a re-creating band, then by all means sound as 
> close
> as you can to the folks you are aping. Call it whatever you want, but IMO 
> it
> is not preserving anything. The originals are already preserved by those
> jazz musicians who created them. IMO (and I'll take the heat for it and
> duck) too much re-creating is simply musical masturbation.
>
> However, an example of a Band that knows how to create within a general
> style is the Bobcats led by pianist Ed Metz. He/They take the preserved
> music and then artfully re-arrange it so that the listener gets the sense
> that yes, this is somewhat like the Original Bobcat music . . . but . .
> there is solo space, there are chordal extensions in those solos that are
> not bound by rules, and the overall effect is a NEW version of the old
> music. IMO, the Metz Bobcats are better than the originals as individuals 
> as
> is their music in the ensemble.
>
> Regarding Rules in Jazz including OKOM, there are 2 as I hear it.
>
> Rule # 1 Jazz has rules
>
> Rule # 2 Ignore Rule #1.
>
> Point being that ALL of the OKOM players we adore, Louis, Bix, Mole,
> Teagarden, Dodds, Russell, et al., broke the rules when they originally
> created the music. Like where would we be if Louis never soloed because it
> was against the rules? Or if Bix never played modern harmonies?
>
> Why should today's wannabe's be any different? Why should any of us want 
> to
> devote our musical life to sounding like someone else. Is it any different
> than writing a book that has already been written, or slavishly copying a
> painting when the original is easily seen? (other than for money, that is)
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Barbone
>
>
>
>
>
>
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