[Dixielandjazz] Well, it ain't The Dutch Swing College Band!!!!!

[Peter Sr. De Bruyn]

I couldn't aggree more.......
Jazz is played with what's going on in your hart and in your soul. All the
rest comes extra....
Maybe that's why real jazz player become better when aging, like Toots and
so many others....
Even if technicall skills tend to decline, the spirit for the music still
grows.

Cheers,

Peter De Bruyn



2006/3/23, Cees van den Heuvel <heu at bart.nl>:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> We are on the same track. There's nothing wrong with technical abilities,
> but...
> the true meaning of jazz lies in catching the soul of it, which can mean
> to
> eliminate meaningless technique. Play the notes that matter, leave out the
> ones that don't. Then you get to the heart of jazz: expression of
> feelings.
> So: gifted musicians with a lack of technique can reach that goal.
> Well trained musicians  can reach it too, but it is more difficult because
> they have to choose what to use.
>
> Jazz is music from the heart, not from the chart.
>
> Cees van den Heuvel
> http://www.revivaljassband.nl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <tcashwigg at aol.com>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Well, it ain't The Dutch Swing College
> Band!!!!!
>
>
> Well said Cees,
>
> That is exactly how some  guys on the list get into cat fights,
> because they come at the music from two different directions and speak
> similar but different musical languages.    As you say they rarely meet
> and sound right, I say the players have to FEEL the music to be able to
> do it justice and sell lit to a real audience. Hence Classical guys
> sometimes make less than desirable Jazz players especially for
> Traditional Jazz, and the early recordings bear a lot of this out to my
> ears as they were developing jazz from their Classical roots.
>
> I think the feeling that was transformed into the early jazz from the
> Black players in New Orleans is what breathed the breath of life into
> the Music and made it come alive  often with leaving out notes and
> hence the phrase it is often what you don't play that is important to
> the song and the audience response, provided of course you have an
> audience :))
>
> Many Technically trained and often over musically educated players
> often try to take it from it's simple feel good form and avant garde it
> out to show off their proficiency and technical skills but almost
> always leave the music flat and boring even if technically brilliant.
> They seem to play it as if to put it down and show off their Aloofness
> at being above such simple music, but in my opinion, when they do so
> they really don't have a clue about how to play it and get a real
> audience response, as if they totally miss the often simplicity of the
> music that makes it truly SWING :))
>
>
> Hey Cees:    Your email address is bouncing back on me:  I tried to
> send you a reply offlist.
> Cheers,
>
> Tom Wiggins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cees van den Heuvel <heu at bart.nl>
> To: Steve barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>; DJML
> <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:35:42 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Well, it ain't The Dutch Swing College
> Band!!!!!
>
>   I've never liked it. It's always the same trick:
> Go from chaos to an imitation of a jazz style and back.
> The audience falls for it and thinks "they can play
> orninary jazz also, so the chaos must have an artistic
> meaning" But when you listnen closer, you'll hear that
> their imitation of e.g. dixieland is less than mediocre.
> Big bands do the same: a written arrangement which
> incorporates a dixie or New Oleans part.
> The "dixie part" is always a caricature of the real thing.
> A few years ago my band's trombone player got ill
> and I contracted an in that scene famous trombone player.
> When we started the concert he did all the caricatures:
> vibrato, long tailgates etc. for a short while and then found
> out he could'nt cope. I will always remember his words:
> "I did'nt know you take this music seriously.." And after
> that tried to do the right thing, but stayed less than mediocre
> in this style.
> It's a bit like people who think they can imitate a Spanish
> flamenco singer.
> Playing trad jazz is a special craft. I know more trad musicians
> that can play dixie, swing, bob and free jazz than the other way
> around.
> Last week I played in a session with a big band trumpet player that
> is regarded as one of the best in the trade. A meaningful solo
> in Royal Garden Blues? Forget it: just a plethora of meaningless
> notes.
> I have also played in a session setting with some of the musicians
> that were mentioned in the article. Forget it, without music
> they don't have a clue.
> On the other hand, as a non reader, I could not hold their
> chair in a big band for a minute.
> Different worlds, each have their own value, but I hate it
> when OKOM is put down as simple. Nonsense!
> To each his own, without putting down other men's crafts.
>
> Cees van den Heuvel
> http://www.revivaljassband.nl
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve barbone"
> <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
> To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:35 PM
> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Well, it ain't The Dutch Swing College
> Band!!!!!
>
> For Cees and our Dutch friends, as well as the more adventurous
> members of
> the DJML. The ICP, seems to be grounded in basic jump swing.
> Interesting if
> only to illustrate the progression from OKOM to Avant Garde.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
> Jazz Review - ICP Orchestra's Experimental Jazz Swings at Tonic
>
> NY TIMES - By NATE CHINEN - March 23, 2006
>
> For the first 10 minutes of the ICP Orchestra's early set at Tonic on
> Tuesday night, the pianist Misha Mengelberg and the drummer Han
> Bennink
> indulged in an improvised duet, something they have been doing
> together for
> roughly 40 years. Their styles were complementary, if a bit bizarrely
> so.
> Mr. Mengelberg gave the impression of a man groping for the doorknob
> in a
> darkened room. Mr. Bennink occupied the same room, but with a
> different
> temperament, impatiently and heedlessly knocking things around.
>
> That somewhat comedic contrast has always characterized Mr.
> Mengelberg's
> rapport with Mr. Bennink; as an exploratory pair, they have as much in
> common with Laurel and Hardy as with Lewis and Clark. In 1967, they
> applied
> their collective energies to the formation of a Dutch avant-garde
> movement
> called the Instant Composers Pool, or ICP. (A third founding member,
> the
> multireedist Willem Breuker, left the organization within its first
> decade.)
> The ICP Orchestra, a flagship in a small fleet of like-minded
> projects, took
> shape in the early 1980's, with Mr. Mengelberg and Mr. Bennink at the
> helm.
>
> The 10-piece group still adheres to Mr. Mengelberg's mandate of
> "instant
> composition," a term that's best understood in opposition to the
> formless
> expanse of free jazz. At Tonic, most of the music was spontaneously
> conceived, and a good deal of it bore the hallmarks of free-form
> experimentalism: clarinet squeals, saxophone shrieks, twitchy arco
> bowing on
> viola, cello and double bass. But there were signposts embedded in the
> music. Coordinated ensemble figures cropped up unexpectedly, hinting
> at a
> secret discipline and a fondness for bygone jazz styles.
>
> Swing < the jump-band variety, not the polished orchestral fare < was
> a
> shadow presence throughout the evening. On one tune, horns and reeds
> attacked a scrap of melody with ramshackle exuberance, while Mr.
> Bennink's
> bass drum thumped four beats to the bar. Mr. Mengelberg, soloing with
> the
> rhythm section, reached for a modern sensibility; he sounded more than
> a
> little like the Duke Ellington of "Money Jungle," a 1962 outing with
> Charles
> Mingus on bass and Max Roach on drums.
>
> Every other member of the orchestra had at least one solo turn; a few,
> like
> the clarinetist Michael Moore, the cellist Tristan Honsinger and the
> trumpeter Thomas Heberer, made multiple contributions. The most
> engagingly
> emphatic was Tobias Delius, playing tenor saxophone on a set-closer;
> he
> began in the hard rhythmic style of Illinois Jacquet, and gradually
> pushed
> toward catharsis.
>
> Mr. Delius was essentially riding the wave of the ensemble's
> propulsion,
> which transported the song from crisp Ellingtonian swing (circa
> 1930's) into
> cacophonous group improvisation (late 60's). In that moment, and on an
> equally immersive rumba, ICP lived up to its name; not just the first
> two
> letters, but also P, for "pool."
>
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