[Dixielandjazz] Fw: Fwd: Jazz is not a museum piece

[Charles Suhor]

Just adding a "hooray" to the nice exchange below. Marek, you're  
long-range view sure captures a lot.--

Charlie Suhor

On Dec 30, 2006, at 3:34 AM, Marek Boym wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marek Boym" <nmboym at 012.net.il>
> To: <rorel at aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Fwd: Jazz is not a museum piece
>
>
>> Many years ago, the avant-garde trumpeter Don Ellis said that Red  
>> Allen
>> was the most avant-garde player in New York, mentioning that the  
>> amazing
>> thing about Allen was that he did it all in the context of traditional
>> jazz! Kenny just followed suit, as did Wallace Davenport, who applied  
>> his
>> tremendous technique to New Orleans jazz, and made it sound great!   
>> After
>> all, one cannot expect musicians to be deaf to anything going around.  
>>  A
>> good friend of mine, Jacques Sany, plays traditional jazz (a Bechet
>> disciple), yet knows everything Paul Desmond and Coltrande did.  Does  
>> he
>> like it?  I don't know, but he understands what they were trying to  
>> do,
>> and, at over 70, he is still learning from everybody.  Thus, in a Ben
>> Webster tribute, his band could play Horace Silver's "The Preacher"  
>> and
>> make it sound like a swing era piece.  And there was the French  
>> Anachronic
>> Jazz Band, with Raymond Fol on piano and Patrick Artero on trumpet  
>> (if you
>> can find him - give him a listen), which specialised in two-beat
>> arrangements of tunes by such as Charlie Parker, Monk, etc.  Their  
>> records
>> still sound wonderful!
>> Cheers
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <rorel at aol.com>
>> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:32 AM
>> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Fwd: Jazz is not a museum piece
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The estimable Steve Barbone (excerpted) note appears below.  My own,
>>> unsolicited opinion, FWIW, follows.
>>>
>>> I believe there is something to Steve's perceptive take on the  
>>> 'nostalgia
>>> racket' but I think it goes further than playing a solo so you sound  
>>> like
>>> Berigan.
>>>
>>> First of all, i think "I Can't Get Started" may be an extreme example
>>> which raises another question -- that of copying solos.  Few would
>>> disagree that many solos have gone on to become classics.  A handful  
>>> of
>>> solos -- Berigan's ICGS, Al Klink/Tex Benecke "In the Mood", actually
>>> have become part of our collective memories.  Even people who are not
>>> familiar with the BB era somehow know the In the Mood solos and for  
>>> those
>>> people those notes actually define the Swing Era.  i am sure that  
>>> even
>>> those of you Gentle Readers with the most open of minds are a little
>>> taken aback when you hear the Miller chart and you don't hear the  
>>> famous
>>> sax battle. These are, as I said, extreme examples and their numbers  
>>> are
>>> few.
>>>
>>> Then there are the solos that may be even more important.  I mean  
>>> those
>>> solos whose creators, with the same 12 notes availabkle to every  
>>> other
>>> musician, have changed music itself.  Think only of Louis, Bix,   
>>> Stacey,
>>> Parker, Coltrane, to name a few that spring immediately to mind.  I  
>>> think
>>> these solos should be preserved and heard live so we can hear what  
>>> they
>>> heard at the time they came into being for the very first time.  They
>>> become, living, vibrant expressions rather than pieces of history  
>>> coming
>>> to us from the impossibly distant past.  In my misspent youth I was
>>> fortunate enough to meet Zutty Singleton and I asked him, with my  
>>> lack of
>>> experience and knowledge, why didn't the Red Hot Peppers and the Hot  
>>> Five
>>> go on tour?  His response was surprising, if only in the hindsight of
>>> age -- he said, "Because the music was too new."  We forget that.  We
>>> forget at that time "Black bottom Stomp" was the experimental jazz  
>>> of its
>>> day and Jelly was its John Zorn.  This music had a limited live
>>> audience at the time of its creation, let alone now, 80 years later.
>>> Aren't we lucky to be able to hear these historic notes live?
>>>
>>> However, not everyone can play these solos.  To bring them off a  
>>> musician
>>> must 'speak the language'.  You must know this music, live it, play,
>>> respect it and love it.  you must feel when to smear a note, when to
>>> heistate behind the beat or push ahead of it and all the other little
>>> nuances which were second nature to players of their time.  i  
>>> remember a
>>> documentary on Dizzy Gillespie where he claimed he could play any  
>>> kind of
>>> music and the cameras followed him around the world supposedly  
>>> offering
>>> proof culled from live concerts.  Dizzy played some salsa, some  
>>> Reggae
>>> and, of course, some 'dixieland'.  He was a lousy dixie player.   
>>> Period.
>>> That's because he did not grow from those roots.
>>>
>>> "Alright Ray," some of you may be saying, "so you are saying to play  
>>> this
>>> music we should be schooled in The Tradition and not venture outside  
>>> the
>>> Trad jazz Shangrila?  Absolutely not, Gentle Readers.  I wish it were
>>> that simple.
>>>
>>> Jazz Education of yore was based on the Master / Apprectince idea.   
>>> You
>>> had a student you took under your wing and they learned from you  
>>> until it
>>> was time for them to go out on their (think only ofthe  
>>> Oliver-Armstrong
>>> relationship).  The founding fathers of Jazz never expected their
>>> students to slavisly emulate them but rather to take their teachings  
>>> and
>>> add their own shine to it.  From its inception Jazz was an evolving
>>> tradition.  i think many of the Old Players would be incredulous of  
>>> the
>>> fact that we sit and analyze their solos, doing all kinds of Schenker
>>> analysis, reductions, transcriptions and the like.  That wasn't what  
>>> it
>>> was about.
>>>
>>> So, I think the nostalgia racket is not always the nostalgia racket.  
>>>  It
>>> is being true to the music, of being able to speak its language  
>>> fluently
>>> and coming out of the tradition and pouring that old wine into new
>>> bottles.  Not many out there can do it successfully.  Mr. Thompson  
>>> can.
>>> Mr Kellso can.  dick Wellstood could.  Kenny Davern could.  There is  
>>> a
>>> prime example.  Kenny played more modern than many trad or swing  
>>> players
>>> but he could play in those surroundings because he learned from those
>>> masters of the past but did not stand still musically.  He took their
>>> teachings and traditions and refracted them through the prism of his  
>>> own
>>> creativity, taking his life experience of the past and making it  
>>> totally
>>> of the present.  I think that the business we are in is not  
>>> nostalgia or
>>> jazz at all.  It is a question of musical integrity and truth.   
>>> Integrity
>>> and truth are rare traits in any field.
>>>
>>> i apoligize for my rather diffuse ramblings.  Next time I'll stick  
>>> closer
>>> to the changes.
>>>
>>> Respectfull submitted,
>>>
>>> Ray Osnato
>>> of the French Jazz Band, Ray Osnato and the Moselle Toughs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: barbonestreet at earthlink.net
>>> To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>>> Sent: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 1:02 PM
>>> Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Jazz is not a museum piece
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IMO, the business we band leaders and players of OKOM are in, depends
>>> upon
>>> the audience for whom we perform. If we are playing in front of old  
>>> folks
>>> at
>>> Jazz Society Concerts, or at OKOM Festivals, perhaps we are in the
>>> nostalgia
>>> business whether we like it or not. Haven't we all gotten a request  
>>> for
>>> say
>>> "I Can't Get Started" by some knowledgeable old fan, who after the
>>> trumpeter
>>> finishes playing it, comes back and says with obvious disappointment;
>>> "That
>>> didn't sound like Bunny," And the guys who played it to that reaction
>>> included greats like Randy Reinhart, or Jon Erik Kellso. Many of  
>>> those
>>> folks
>>> want not to hear a jazz take by today's greats, but a nostalgic  
>>> rendition
>>> of
>>> some dead guy's version.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, there are some OKOMers playing today, for young
>>> audiences, who hear the music for what it is right now, not what it  
>>> was,
>>> back in the good old days. They are not in the nostalgia business.  
>>> Kenny
>>> Davern was a player like that.
>>>
>>> Yep, perception of what we do as bands is key, and the nostalgia
>>> perception
>>> is out there big and bold. Let's change it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Steve Barbone
>>>
>>>
>>>
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