[Dixielandjazz] old horns - saxes

Sat Sep 24 13:40:39 PDT 2005

The newer instruments generally are not as good as the older instruments
however I agree that the Yamahas are blowing away the others.  I own a
Yamaha Custom Soprano and Baritone Sax and have played others including
Selmer's (Mark VI alto) I think that's pretty much true.  Having said that I
think the vintage Selmer tenors are marginally better although I played a
Yamaha Custom tenor last week that IMHO blows away the Selmer.  I understand
that Kielworth is very good but I have never played on one.

At the same time I was playing the tenor I tried a Buescher 400 top hat
model made in the late 50's some time.  What an incredible instrument.  No
wonder Selmer wanted them off the market and the instruments were degraded
to the point that the brand had no credibility.  I'm looking for one now.  I
understand why the Buescher Aristocrat that I have is such a good horn.  It
was made in the "Sweet" years of the company.  Later Aristocrats are just
junk and are not on a pro level.  I have kept my aristocrat for all these
years because every time I got a wild hair to buy a new horn I would put
them side by side and I would end up keeping my Aristocrat and that includes
the Mark VI alto I played in the AF band.  The sounds are a little different
though.

I tried briefly a new Selmer Tenor.  I don't remember the model but it has a
matte gold finish.  A friend of mine has one and he is a premier player so
it must be good right?  I picked up the horn and put it right back in the
case without blowing it.  I have never felt stiffer key action on any horn.
Maybe there is a reason but I didn't like it at all.  That's one of the
impressive things about my Yamaha Bari in that it fingers virtually
effortlessly like an alto.

Sometimes manufacturers get things all wrong.  I played on an old King tenor
and the key placement was all wrong.  I have small hands and it makes a big
difference.  The Selmer Bari's crook blocks my vision of the music but the
Yamaha is so cool.  Not only can I see around it but I can turn the neck
almost sideways and rest the horn on my leg taking a lot of weight off my
neck and all the keys are still reachable.

The only thing I found wrong with the Yamaha bari  was it just would quit
playing or be very muffy in the low range.  Then it would pop back in.
Sometimes I would have to wet down the pads in the upper end to get
everything to seal.  Very frustrating.  I had it into the shop about six or
eight times.  Leaving the shop playing perfectly only to have it bomb out on
the next gig.  One night I stood up to play a solo and moved the neck
straight and saw the whole upper section of the horn shift just a few
thousandths. Almost imperceptible but just enough to leak.   It turns out
that Yamaha glues the joints together.  They do this because it's easy for a
repairman to pull the joint apart with a little heat and it's a lot cheaper
than soldering the joint and doesn't burn the lacquer.  After I had the
joint soldered no more problems.

Today of course there are better methods of making instruments with more
precision but you can still line up ten of them and they will have slightly
different playing characteristics.  It's still an art not a science in the
making good woodwind instruments.  That's why there are sweet years in every
brand of instruments.

I think that there may be something to cryogenically freezing a horn to take
out stresses.  I wonder if anyone on the list ever had that done?   I was
also told that gold plating the inside of the mouthpiece crook makes a
difference on Saxes.  Urban myths or does it work.  Does anyone want to know
how to freeze reeds to pre break them in?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Cebuisle2 at aol.com>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 11:31 AM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] old horns

> I will side with Larry on this one. I have an ancient cornet, dark brass,
> shepherd's crook style. It was built around 1880 by the Conn company.
Years ago
> they said it was one of their first, and wanted to buy it for their
museum,
> but  I never sold it. Anyway, the horn is pretty, but valve action quite
slow
> compared to my l940's King model. Cleaning and oiling hasn't helped,
perhaps
> stronger springs would. But I haven't altered it.
>
> I agree that some instruments made in the last few decades are not as good
> as the older models-Selmer  saxes come to mind.But others-Yamaha- are.  My
post
> about instrument quality, or lack of, was meant to refer to  instruments
of
> the earlier 20th Century. As an old retired (?) band director  I've had
the
> opportunity to compare many instruments. The machines that  made these old
horns
> weren't as precise as today's instruments of  production.And-as I
mentioned,
> the guys didn't take as good care of them. I have  seen rubber bands
holding
> down keys on saxes, and these guys were union  musicians! Probably many of
them
> could not afford to get the horns repaired just  for a single recording
date
> or occasional gig-
>
>
>  play it hot!         tradjazz
>
>
>
>
>
>
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