[Dixielandjazz] Jazz & Poetry

[Steve barbone]

Ha Ha, yes, I am yankin' the chain. VBG means "Very Big Grin". Only point I
make is that poetry and jazz have been together from the beginning. "Jazz &
Poetry" is simply the evolved form.

I also believe that Composing and Improvisation are really the same thing.
E.G. When I improvise in linear fashion on the "jazz" portion of a song, I
am composing another tune.

I see it as the same as writing a song. The writing process is on the spot
improvisation, and with the horn instead of a pencil. In final form, it is
no longer improvisation if the composer played it the same way every time.

Perhaps I am picking nits, but once again, I only point out that Jazz &
Poetry, or  Music & Poetry have been together since words were put to music
or music put to words. The lyricists were/are IMO, Poets.

 

on 3/20/05 4:05 PM, Charles Suhor at csuhor at zebra.net wrote (polite snip)

> I think you're yankin' my chain, Steve (what does VBG mean?). But I'll
> answer briefly, in CAPS since we're now into three-tiered response.
> Charlie Suhor

Ha Ha, yes, I am yankin' the chain. VBG means "Very Big Grin". Only point I
make is that poetry and jazz have been together from the beginning. "Jazz &
Poetry" is simply the evolved form.

I also believe that Composing and Improvisation are really the same thing.
E.G. When I improvise in linear fashion on the "jazz" portion of a song, I
am composing another tune.

Perhaps I am picking nits, but once again, I only point out that Jazz &
Poetry, or  Music & Poetry have been together since words were put to music
or music put to words. The lyricists were/are IMO, Poets.
 
>>> but Jazz & Poetry involves hearing a separately written poem (or
>>> sometimes an on-the-spot verbally improvised "spoken word"piece) and
>>> jamming some appropriate jazz behind it, picking up on the mood and
>>> image of the poem.

Improvisation involves exactly the same processes during a regular song, but
especially when backing up a singer. The expert jazz improviser would match
his/her improv to the words. phrases and inflections.

> COMPOSING MUSIC TO "TREES" OR WORDS TO "JAZZ ME BLUES," ODDLY ENOUGH,
> ARE THE FORMS OF INVENTION KNOWN, RESPECTIVELY, AS
> (a) COMPOSING OF MUSIC TO PRECISELY FIT LYRICS AND
> (b) COMPOSING OF LYRICS TO PRECISELY FIT MUSIC.
> THEY'RE DIFFERENT FROM
> (c) IMPROVISING MUSIC, AS IN JAZZ, OR
> (c) SPONTANEOUSLY WRITING, AS IN THIS SENTENCE.

What they are "known" as is not the issue and debatable. I don't agree. IMO
they are the same as they occur in the real time creative sequence. As I see
it, writing a song is spontaneous improvisation until it is finished.

> IN J&P, WHAT WE HAVE IS (c),  DONE IN RESPONSE TO A READ-ALOUD OF A
> PREVIOUSLY COMPOSED POEM OR, IN SOME CASES, TO WORDS SPOKEN
> SPONTANEOUSLY ON THE SPOT.

OK, if that is how you wish to define it "J & P" as a genre.

> IN COMPOSING A MELODY TO FIT A LYRIC, ONE DOESN'T "IMPROVISE A
> MELODY BEHIND IT" BUT WRITES A MELODY TO FIT THE EXACT METRICS OF THE
> LYRIC. SURELY YOU'VE NOTICED--THAT'S NOT JAZZ IMPROVISATION BUT A
> DIFFERENT AND MORE LABORED FORM, CONVENTIONALLY CALLED, AGAIN, "WRITING
> A MUSICAL COMPOSITION."

Matters little what one calls it. Writing a song and improvising are IMO the
very same thing. The song writer is improvising until the form is finalized.

> FOR A GREAT EXPOSITION OF ON THE UNIQUE MENTAL PROCESSES OF JAZZ
> IMPROVISATION, SEE  PAUL BERLINER'S "THINKING IN JAZZ." IF YOUR
> INTUITIONS TELL YOU THAT WHAT YOU DO WHEN PLAYING JAZZ, IN ITSELF OR IN
> RESPONSE TO A POEM, IS A PROCESS IDENTICAL TO WHEN YOU SIT DOWN  TO
> COMPOSE A MELODY, I FIND THAT STRANGE BUT I CAN'T DENY YOUR EXPERIENCE.
> BUT AS ALEC WILDER HAS SAID, COMPOSING A MUSICAL SELECTION IS A FAR
> MORE LABORIOUS MODE OF INVENTION THAT LIGHTNING-QUICK IMPROVISATION.
> THE SAME IS TRUE FOR MENTAL PROCESSES IN LANGUAGE. AS A POET, I INVENT
> MUCH MORE SLOWLY THAN WHEN I IMPROVISATIONALLY CONVERSE OR WRITE A
> LETTER.

You shouldn't find it so strange. It cannot be exactly identical because the
time dimension is so different. Improvisation during a  jazz piece (or J& P
program) is accomplished much more quickly and is a much more difficult
process. It will also invariably contain mistakes, which the song writer
would spot during his more leisurely processes, and correct before finishing
the song. Only the electronic wizards can eliminate on the spot improv
mistakes of a jazz musician, provided the performance was recorded.

Cheers,
Steve Barbone