[Dixielandjazz] Re: Battle Hymn & John Brown

[Patrick Cooke]

     Bill, I have disagreed with you before, and it is no surprise that I 
have to respectfully disagree with you again.
      I could take apart your post piece by piece, but I think it's time to 
take this off list if you care to continue it.
      Possibly we could start an American history discussion group for those 
of us who have been reading all the different versions of history that have 
been written. I don't know how many other history buffs are out there, but 
maybe we could get a lively group going.
      Before I sign this one off, though;  I have a particular distaste for 
any individual, group, or nation who tries to attach religious justification 
for mass murder and other evil deeds.  Millions of people have been 
slaughtered in the name of some deity or other, and I have no doubt it will 
continue to be so.  Attaching religious significance to your "noble cause" 
is nothing more than an attempt to relieve the evil doer(s) of all guilt, 
and transfer the blame to God...or Allah..or whomever.

     Pat Cooke

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Gunter" <jazzboard at hotmail.com>
To: <amazingbass at cox.net>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Battle Hymn & John Brown


> Hi Pat and all,
>
> You wrote:
>
>>Not all murderers were abolitionists, neither were all abolitionists 
>>murderers; but the John Brown whom Julia Howe elevated to sainthood with 
>>her lyrics was indeed both a serial mass murderer and an abolitonist.
>
> 1. Julia Howe didn't elevate John Brown to Sainthood with her lyrics. The 
> "John Brown's Body" mouldrin' in the grave lyrics were written by someone 
> else. Julia rewrote the lyrics after hearing the earlier "John Brown" 
> version. Her lyrics bear no connection to John Brown and are, instead, a 
> monument to the noble efforts of the Union in the Civil War and to those 
> efforts as a religious crusade.
>
> 2. Whether or not John Brown was a murderer lies (as is always the case) 
> in the eyes of the beholder.
>
> You wrote:
>
>>He and his sons killed dozens of people, some entire families, in Kansas; 
>>and was primary cause of the state being named "bleeding Kansas."  He was 
>>captured at Harpers Ferry by a federal force led by captain Robert E. Lee, 
>>who was still an officer in the U.S. Army at the time.   Brown's legal 
>>defense tried to claim insanity, but he was found guilty and hanged.  I 
>>believe he was indeed insane, but I'm glad they hanged him anyway.  He 
>>needed hangin'.
>
> Yet to others John Brown was a hero, champion and now, a martyr.
>
> So what really was Brown? Murderer? Civil Rights Activist? Hero?
>
> It's kind of like wars. The position that the antagonists are the "good" 
> versus the "evil" has always been determined by the victor.
>
> But as far as the hymn itself is concerned, it is a powerful musical 
> statement and because of that it has been used in literally dozens of 
> parodies on the lyrics (with the same melody) presenting the most banal of 
> themes.
>
> Respectfully submitted,
>
> Bill Gunter
> jazzboard at hotmail.com
>
>
>