[Dixielandjazz] Who invented jazz?

[Bill Gunter]

Listmates,

Steve B writes (regarding inventors of jazz):

"Hmmmmm. Does Richard Sudhalter know about this? Yes, he does. He waxes 
eloquently about those early Italian jazzmen and their contributions . . ."

Ain't nobody denying the contributions of the Italians but we are seeking 
the answer to the ongong question . . . "who invented it?"

Now I have already suggest J. S. Bach (who was German) but while Bach was a 
great improvisor, composer, etc. the typical style of German music is 
probably more embodied in the music of Wagner or in the field of polkas and 
martial music.  By the way - I also accept the contributions of both polkas 
and marches in the creation of jazz.

But I'm not sure I'd really want to credit the Germans with the invention of 
jazz. That'd be a bit of a stretch. There was a time when they banned it.

But for Jewish/Yiddish contributions you might read some of another jazz 
historian/columnist, Nat Hentoff, and see what he has to say about it. You 
can google it up easily.

Respectfully submitted,

Bill "Oy Vey" Gunter
jazzboard at hotmail.com

>From: Steve barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
>To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 26, Issue 15
>Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:00:56 -0500
>
>"Bill Gunter" <jazzboard at hotmail.com> wrote (polite snips)
>
> > Much has been made of the claim that the Italians invented jazz.  Give 
>me a
> > break.
>
> > True, the Italians are a most musical people. Matter of fact, it was an
> > Italian monk back in the year 1100 or so who finally identified and
> > formalized the musical notation system and tonic scale that 
>characterizes
> > ALL of western music!! Guido d'Arezzo was the fellow's name and his
> > contribution to all of our music in the western world is enormous.
>
>Yes, and Italy remained THE center of music in the civilized world for
>centuries thereafter.
>
> > But jazz, on the other hand, is cool, syncopated, bouncy, upbeat, and
> > joyous.
>
>Cool? Not always. Jazz started out as HOT, just like us hot blooded
>Italians. It only became cool when the pseudo intellectuals started to dig
>it. It had to have been invented by a HOT BLOODED group of people who are
>syncopated, (check those hand gestures) bouncy, upbeat and joyous. Hey,
>that's the very definition of Italians, nobody else fits.
>
> > Sure, Italians can play it and even sing it (Prima . . . need I say 
>more?}!
> > But, they didn't invent it.
> > It had to be a culture with a history of oppression going back millennia 
>but
> > never losing its capacity for music and humor. The sad songs and laments 
>of
> > this culture reduce us to tears but the happy music makes us wanna dance 
>and
> > the humor is so funny that we almost pee in our pants! And, by the way, 
>the
> > first musical movie ever made (The Jazz Singer) was not about Italians!
>
>Yes but then, the only folks with a "millennia" history of oppression are
>the Jews so buy that rationale, they must have invented jazz. The first
>"musical" movie was in reality the first "talking" movie designed to
>entertain, not teach musical history of jazz. However, the star was indeed
>Jewish so maybe they did invent jazz.
>
>We should realize, however, that the Italians were indeed an oppressed
>segment of the population in pre World War 1 New Orleans. Every bit as 
>much,
>if not more so, than any other population segment there.
>
>Therefore if "oppression" spawned jazz, then it must have been invented
>first by the Jews, then by the Italians and the Blacks.
>
>Italians are getting short shrift here, even today, by the revisionist
>historians who blissfully ignore all those Italian Jazz Musicians named in
>previous posts all who pre-dated Louis Prima by at least a generation and
>some who pre date Louis Armstrong.
>
>Hmmmmm. Does Richard Sudhalter know about this? Yes, he does. He waxes
>eloquently about those early Italian jazzmen and their contributions in
>"Lost Chords", to the point of suggesting that someone should write a
>historical account of it in book length form.
>
>Cheers, (tongue firmly in cheek)
>Steve Barbone
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz