[Dixielandjazz] C Melody Sax and the Eb Alto sax

[J. D. Bryce]

OK, here are my thoughts by number:

1. Why didn't the C melody make the transition? Was it because it didn't
 blend with the other saxes well?

That's at least partially it. The alto was brighter and the tenor had more
gravitas, thus making for a more "full" section sound.  By 1930, virtually
no bands were using C melodies.

2. It seems to me that C melody would have been much more painless to
 transpose than to the alto. When did the alto sax catch on?

The alto was always there.  King Oliver used one at times. But by the
mid-1920's there were guys like Johnny Hodges and Jimmy Dorsey defining the
sound, and with sounds like that, the C melody seemed a bit bland.

3. In your opinion which was the better horn?

No question, the alto.  Much more flexible for section work and bright for
solos.  Interestingly enough, I've been adapting classical violin solos for
the C melody.  It works fairly well.

 Lester Young, I am told originally started on Alto in his father's band.
 I have always thought that it would have been interesting to hear him on
 alto.
 There were times when his tenor was so ariy that it seemed like an alto.

 I think the ideal sax section would have been:
Johnny Hodges and Paul Desmond on alto sax
Lester Young and Ben Webster on Tenor Sax

I doubt this section would have flown.  Hodges' vibrato was so wide that
he'd probably have driven Desmond nuts.  They'd rarely be in tune. Almost
the same for Prez and Webster.

I have a recording of Phil Woods and Benny Carter on altos with Coleman
Hawkins and Charlie Rouse on tenors playing Body and Soul in 1961. Each had
a solo with Bean having the last (and definitive) word.

J. D. B.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike C." <mike at michaelcryer.com>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] C Melody Sax and the Eb Alto sax


> Nice Post J.D. I have a few more questions:
>
> 1. Why didn't the C melody make the transition? Was it because it didn't
> blend with the other saxes well?
>
> 2. It seems to me that C melody would have been much more painless to
> transpose than to the alto. When did the alto sax catch on?
>
> 3. In your opinion which was the better horn?
>
> Lester Young, I am told originally started on Alto in his father's band.
> I have always thought that it would have been interesting to hear him on
> alto.
>
> I think the ideal sax section would have been:
>
> Johnny Hodges and Paul Desmond on alto sax
>
> Lester Young and Ben Webster on Tenor Sax
>
> Harry Carney on Baritone Sax with Pepper Adams as a close runner up
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> J. D. Bryce wrote:
> > The C Melody is an interesting horn. Around 1910 most bands had a
violinist.
> > As the saxophone, and jazz-influenced music became more popular, bands
saw a
> > need to adapt.  Since the C Melody is pitched in concert key, many bands
> > simply had their violinist learn the instrument and then simply play the
> > violin part on the horn.  This is somewhat of an oversimplification, but
> > still essentially true.
> >
> > By around 1925, most white bands had begun to fully absorb the jazz
idiom
> > and had begun to use sax sections, usually 2 altos and a tenor.  This
was
> > relatively standard between 1925 and 1930, with two notable exceptions:
> > Ellington used 5 saxes (2 altos, 2 tenors and a baritone; and Fletcher
> > Henderson used 2 altos and 2 tenors. The C melody was not adaptable for
such
> > section work and fell out of favor.  Most manufacturers stopped making
them
> > by the mid-1930's.
> >
> > Frankie Trumbauer was often photographed with a Conn straight-necked
model
> > that looks like a large alto. C melodies from Buescher and Martin
had/have a
> > goose neck and so looked like a small tenor.
> >
> > There is a legend, which if it isn't true, it ought to be. The story
goes
> > that Lester Young was so impressed with Trumbauer's sound on radio and
> > recordings, that he tried to sound like it.  But Young played tenor, and
> > thus evolved a lighter, more airy sound that eventualy came to display
the
> > gruff, masculine sound that was so prevalent on tenor.  Young offered an
> > alternative to the sound featured so stunningly by Coleman Hawkings and
> > other tenor men of the 1930's.
> >
> > As a tenor player, I enjoy Young and his disciples like Getz, Sims etc.
But
> > the Hawkings sound, as well as guys like charlie Ventura and Ben Webster
> > just bowls me over.  It's an old sound, but still wonderful.
> >
> > I have a both a Buescher and a Conn C melody.  I wouldn't part with
either.
> >
> > J. D. Bryce
> > Waldorf, MD
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Mike C." <mike at michaelcryer.com>
> > To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 2:11 PM
> > Subject: [Dixielandjazz] C Melody Sax and the Eb Alto sax
> >
> >
> >
> >>  Frankie Trumbauer played a C melody saxophone. Why is this horn no
> >>longer being used and the Eb alto is? What were the major differences
> >>between these two horns(Other than their key)?
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Mike
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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