banjo haiku - was: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Haiku - was "police" & rules - was Watch Your Back - was haiku

[Plectrum Joe]

pluck pluck pluck pluck pluck
plunk plunk plunk plunk plunk plunk plunk
no jazz police please

Plectrum Joe
(that's all I know)


barbonestreet at earthlink.net wrote:

>on 10/22/04 11:58 PM, Bill Gunter at jazzboard at hotmail.com wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi Steve (and Haiku lovers) . . .
>>
>>Aha, we meet again . . .
>>
>>You say:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>You still don't get it do you?
>>>      
>>>
>>What's to get?
>>    
>>
>
>Ah Bill, you cannot possibly be that dense, can you? Or is it that you too
>are unable to admit mistakes. ;-) VBG (subtle inside humor)
>
>The original post from Phil O'Rourke was not about "Haiku". You then "butt"
>in and try to make it about Haiku. You then ignore the simple fact that you
>are totally in error about the original post and now about Haiku.
>
>About your rant on 5,7,5 and rules for Haiku (The side issue which you
>created). Remember I warned all to thoroughly research this subject. You
>obviously did not understand why. OK here's why.
>
>Everything you claim in your post about Haiku & rules is superficial and
>wrong. You mistakenly assume the website to read is the one with the Basho
>quotes. WRONG AGAIN. Dig a little deeper than the first site that pops up on
>a google search. Here is the web site with the  most knowledgeable
>discussion of Haiku. Spend at least 2 hours on it to LEARN. (It has a wealth
>of Haiku information)
>
>http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiku.htm
>
>Suggest you first click on some of the "How To" notes.
>
>Then realize that:
>
>1) The 5,7,5 meter which you so wrong-headedly cling to is NOT a hard/fast
>rule as you claim. In fact, neither is a 3 line poem. Some lines/meters are
>3,4,3 and/or 9,8 and/or just about what ever the writer wishes it to be.
>
>2) The 7 limit, which you erroneously claim for the second line, is exceeded
>frequently. Many haiku poems exceed the 7, just like mine did, and many stay
>under it. 
>
>3) The first rule of Haiku, Basho 17th Century, is "learn the rules and then
>forget them" because there are so many rules that one cannot adhere to them
>all since following one would break another. Check the website, you'll find
>that "rule" there. You must choose which rules you personally will follow
>and others will choose which ones they will follow.
>
>4) Plus, translating the form into English is difficult because 17 English
>syllables convey so much more meaning than the equivalent number of Japanese
>characters. Therefore English Haiku is much more suited to meter's smaller
>than 5,7,5. Plus the syllable rule is "up to 17", so anything smaller is
>quite proper if the 'substance" conditions are met. Following are some
>"rules"
>
>1. Seventeen syllables in one line.
>
>2. Seventeen syllables written in three lines.
>
>3. Seventeen syllables written in three lines divided into 5-7-5.
>
>4. Seventeen syllables written in a vertical (flush left or centered) line.
>
>5. Less than 17 syllables written in three lines as short-long-short.
>
>Etc.
>
>Then here are some others.
>
>1. In English, 2,3,2 or 3,4,3 is more suitable. (makes it more of a
>challenge)
>
>2. "Classic" Haiku is two lines, like 12,5 or 9,8 or 10,7 etc.
>
>AND SO ON, AND SO ON, AND SO ON.
>
>Once again, my advice to you? EXPAND YOUR MIND. THOROUGHLY investigate the
>subject matter before reaching conclusions. You get in much less trouble
>that way. Do not rush to form a conclusion out of ignorance of the subject
>matter and then seek to justify it regardless of the facts.
>
>I do agree with you that the claptrap pseudo Haiku that you and I write, is
>not the "real" thing. What is the "real form/substance"? Suggest you go to
>that website above and spend a day or two figuring it out before you post
>lengthy examples of trash poetry that are not haiku and an effort to baffle
>us with BS. 
>
>Nobody so far on the list has written anything but a poor imitation of
>Haiku. All adhering to one type of form, but the substance is not there.
>
>Musical Content? Not too different from garage bands that think they are
>made up of jazz musicians. Or audiences who hear imitation jazz musicians
>and think they are listening to the real thing. :-) VBG.
>
>Cheers,
>Steve Barbone
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Dixielandjazz mailing list
>Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>  
>