[Dixielandjazz] Recordings, CD's

TCASHWIGG at aol.com TCASHWIGG at aol.com
Sun Jul 11 23:39:37 PDT 2004

In a message dated 7/11/04 12:29:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jazzdude at bellsouth.net writes:

Dave Hanson

Hello Dave and All:  I would like to take a stab at this post with all due 
respect to Dave Hanson, whom I respect as a gentleman and a fellow player and 
list mate, and nothing in my post reply is intended to be personal towards Dave 
and his experiences mentioned herein.

> Hello listmates ! I'm listening to the discussion about recording CD's 
> live, and turning them around for public release within a day or two. Remarkable 
> approach to selling your product, if you can, in fact, do a quick turnaround, 
> with quality

 and everyone in the group recorded is in agreement about all of this.

If they are not they should not be on the stage, and the leader should have 
negotiated a clause into his personal appearance contract that no recording was 
permitted without a signed agreement as to its usage and or distribnution or 
reproduction for the commercial sale of any copies.

> How many of us have had a recording made of a live performance without our 
> knowledge, and suddenly someone is selling our efforts on a CD we didn't get 
> paid for, 

If you accepted a gig with the band and got on the stage and performed for a 
given agreed upon length of time and got financially compensated for such then 
you were indeed paid. 

and don't really have any connection to the groups we did it with ? ie: a 
concert situation.  

If you actually got on the stage and played with the group for payment and or 
without payment you did so on your own accord and unless you asked and were 
lied to about it being recorded without your permission to do so then you 
really have no legal grounds to object to it so long as it is not commercially 
released for profits.

Now put the show on the other foot, say you did get up, and played with them 
and got the nod to do a solo and you played the most brilliant solo of your 
life at that very time, would you not wish the rest of your life that it had 
been recorded and you at least had a copy of it?

> I've had it happen to me and frankly I cringe every time I see the mikes 
> and sound equipment I wonder who will making a profit from the groups efforts, 
> me included. Any comment folks !!! 

Now if you are Jack Teagarden, or any other prominent star musician that 
makes perfect sense, as you have a reputation and a financial interest to protect 
that you have worked long and hard for.   However; if you are just plain Dave 
in Atlanta or Joe in Hackensack, playing every gig you can get as a sideman, 
trying to get popular and famous so folks will pay to come and hear you and buy 
your music, then you should consider it a lucky break that someone actually 
spent the money and the time to bother to record what you are doing.   Go out 
of your way to meet and talk to the person doing the recording as well as the 
bandleader and negotiate yourself into the deal for any commercialization of 
the recordings.    This can be done two ways,  either they can pay you a go away 
one time fee for your time at the hourly rate for a three hour session 
determined by the union rates  in your area, or you could take a flyer with them and 
settle for a royalty on any sales of the product.

Then go home and hope the Hell they promote the hell out of it and sell a 
million copies so a Milliion people will now know who you are and it might just 
kick start a real career for you as a prominent artist with name value.   That 
is compensation that you can't buy and most musicians would die for.  The 
least you can hope for is that they put your name on the cover and list you as a 

Just being a good player has very little to do with being successful in this 
very difficult business, and to be quite honest most folks don't give a rats 
patuttee who the Hell is playing on the CD when they first buy it other than 
the name of the promoted Star or Group name, and many of them even buy it just 
for the song they liked, if your lucky the song was your SOLO and you will 
start to get recognition and eventually money from it.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I have had musicians walk up and 
start some mess about recording them  and that they wanted Fifty bucks extra for 
it, when asked if they wanted to stay with the band and be on a royalty 
percentage with the rest of the men they said no way man give me my fifty bucks now 
and I don't care what you do with it.

Guess what happens, he gets his fifty bucks his name does not go on the 
project and he goes away thinking he got over ont he bandleader and thent he band 
starts to sell some product and he gets a copy and finds out his name is not on 
the CD, gets pissed off and threatens to sue them all.  They by then have 
ironed out a contract for the release and distributions of the profits of the 
recording according to the guys who signed onto the deal and nobody knows this 
clown and he gets nothing but the fifty bucks he was so desperate to get in the 
first place.

There are countless stories about guys way back then that sold songs lock 
stock and barrel to others willing to take a chance on the tunes and record them 
and then got mad because they claim after they were hits to be the rightful 
owners and writers of the songs.

Happens every day,  ya just gotta take care of Business, treat it like a 
business and it will treat you like one, but you gotta pay attention to the 
business and make sure you understand the business side of it.   Crying over split 
milk never worked and never will even if you find a lwayer to sue somebody for 
kicking over the bottle, or not putting the lid on tightly enough. etc.


Tom Wiggins

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