[Dixielandjazz] Re: Drum Sounds was Baby Dodds

[john petters]

Steve said
>I did not listen to a lot of early
> clarinet players. Some Picou, some Nicholas, then Goodman, Russell, Simeon
and Fazola.
> After that I learned on the job from Bechet, Pace, Davern, Wilbur and a
whole bunch of
> contemporaries. While also listening a lot to Monk, Coltrane, Lacy, J.J.
Johnson,
> Hawkins, Getz, Parker and Brubeck et al.
Nothing wrong with that Steve. You heard the roots players. Odd you left
Dodds and Bigard out though. Nonetheless, that gave you the basis. Nothing
wrong either in listening to the boppers, but imo they will not make you a
better Dixieland clarinet player and may indeed lead you into playing
bastardised harmonies - that's also fine if that's what you want. The
problem I hear with many latter day New Orleans players is precisely that.
With Bechet, Dodds or Louis there was no be-bop influence, so the style
remained timeless. Many of the contemporary players today will add bop runs
into their play, which does not appeal to me.
To apply modern styles of drumming to Dixieland fundamentally changes the
rhythmic pulse of the music. Dixieland - swing relies on either 4 beat or 2
beat time from the bass drum. Be bop fragmented that beat and whilst doing
so moved the time keeping to the top cymbal with the snare used for accents,
many of which were over busy. Fine for Be Bop but not for Dixieland. This
style of drumming confused many players in the 40s and 50s so that anyone
playing time on the bass/snare was considered old hat. Krupa tried to play
Be Bop and failed. Sid Catlett, it was claimed succeeded, but I think he
just adapted a swing style. The real Bop innovators were Roach, Blakey,
Kenny Clarke and a handful of others.

>Similar more contemporary style Dixieland drummers in the US
> have learned from Max Roach, Joe Morello, Elvin Jones, Shelly Manne, et
al. perhaps
> more from them, than from the earlier masters. They too, do a fine job
with the music.
Perhaps this is the nub of the original thread that most Dixieland around
today is polite, lacking drive and conviction. It is mainly a problem caused
by drummers. Someone forwarded my comments to Hal Smith and we have had some
great fun discussing drumming from a drummers point of view off list. Hal
sounds the way he does because he understands the jazz drumming tradition.
That is why his recordings have that ring of authenticity about them that is
seldom heard on either side of the pond these days.

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com