[Dixielandjazz] Re: So bad it must be shared.......

[Beth Villanyi]

Stan,

With all due respect, Bb Db and F spell a Bb minor chord. The interval 
between Db and F is a major third. D to F is a minor third. Play it on a 
keyboard if you don't believe me. So the joke is referring to the chord 
being minor, not the two intervals of the chord.

So the bartender here in California could not serve the minor chord, but 
when the Db left, the Bb and F had the perfect fifth between them to enjoy. 
I certainly don't want to be the Db!

Beth

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stan Brager" <sbrager at socal.rr.com>
To: "Beth Villanyi" <bethv at portafortuna.com>; "Dixieland Jazz" 
<dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: So bad it must be shared.......


> Larry et al;
>
> Is this joke referring to a chord or to the interval between notes?
>
> Let's follow your KISS principle:
>
> From Bb to Db is a minor interval as is the interval from Db to F. Here in
> California, it's illegal for bartenders to serve minors regardless of 
> chord
> or key correctness. The bartender in this case obeyed the law.
>
> However, when the Db leaves, there are no minor intervals left. Merely the
> perfect or whole interval between the Bb and the F.
>
> This joke has nothing to do with keys or chords - just notes and 
> intervals.
>
> Stan
> Stan Brager
> Trombonist-in-Training
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Beth Villanyi" <bethv at portafortuna.com>
> To: "Dixieland Jazz" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: So bad it must be shared.......
>
>
>> Jeez Larry, wouldn't it have been easier just to say the joke was
> referring
>> to a Bb minor chord and not three different minor keys?
>>
>> My head is spinning!
>>
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "LARRY'S Signs and Large Format Printing" <sign.guy at charter.net>
>> To: "Robert Smith" <robert.smith at mitransport.no>; "Dixieland Jazz"
>> <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: So bad it must be shared.......
>>
>>
>> > Bob -
>> > The spelling of a minor chord is 3 half steps(minor third)  on the
> bottom
>> > with 4 half steps(major third) on top. A major chord is the opposite
> with
>> > 4
>> > half steps between the root and third and 3 half steps between the 
>> > third
>> > and
>> > the fifth.  An example is the Bb minor chord.  Count them Bb (root), B,
> C,
>> > Dflat (3) (third)  Dflat, D, D#, E, F(fifth) (4)  Hence a Bb minor
> chord.
>> >
>> > The joke refers to chord spacing and the notes that are associated with
>> > the
>> > chord symbol.  While it is true that chords are usually spelled in
>> > accordance with the scale that they are associated with jazz musicians
>> > rarely use some chord spellings.  Although for example C flat may be 
>> > the
>> > correct spelling in some keys most guitar players would do a double 
>> > take
>> > if
>> > you wrote it for them.  The same is true of many of the flat Chords.
>> > Common
>> > usage is that chords like Gb, Cb,  E#, B# are almost never used even
>> > though
>> > they are technically correct at times.
>> >
>> > To simplify things Jazz writers will almost always choose a Bb chord
>> > rather
>> > than an A# even though the A# may be technically correct in some keys.
>> > Don't confuse the chord symbol with the scale.
>> >
>> > While it is true that the classical spelling of the chords based on the
>> > scale tones of the scale is technically correct that's not what happens
> in
>> > common usage.  In classical music they used Roman Numerals as figured
> bass
>> > to denote the chord.  Roman numerals are always technically correct but
>> > are
>> > difficult to read so jazz musicians came up with chord symbols.  A III
> mi
>> > chord in the key of C is an Emi in chord symbols while a III mi in A is
> a
>> > CO
>> > chord so the musician had to translate each time.  Roman numerals and
>> > figured bass are correct are best for chordal analysis of music.  Chord
>> > symbols on the other hand are almost useless for analysis of a piece of
>> > music because they are used in a wishy washy way.  (On the other hand
>> > that's
>> > the way most of us Jazz musicians are.)  If you think this is all
>> > confusing
>> > try Sofeggi.
>> >
>> > A good example is the way  computers sometimes put in accidentals.  I
> have
>> > seen an E# (the note) followed by an F ( or a Gb followed by an F# etc)
> in
>> > the same measure.  This might be technically correct but it makes sight
>> > reading tough and fills the tunes with needless mistakes.  Follow the
> KISS
>> > principle when writing. ( Keep It Simple Stupid.)
>> >
>> > I would have picked a different chord for the joke.
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Robert Smith" <robert.smith at mitransport.no>
>> > To: "Dixieland Jazz" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:03 PM
>> > Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Re: So bad it must be shared.......
>> >
>> >
>> > Ed Danielsen relayed this joke:
>> >>A B-flat, a D-flat, and an F walk into a bar. The
>> >>bartender says to them, "I'm sorry we don't serve minors here"...
>> >>
>> >>So the D-flat leaves and the B-flat and the F have
>> >>a fifth between them and go home.
>> >>
>> >
>> > There is a minor mistake in the joke that in fact is a major mistake.
>> > D-flat is in fact a major key with five flats. The key of D-flat minor
>> > would, in fact have eight flats, which, though not impossible, is
>> > cumbersome, and traps the unwary with F-flat and C-flat.
>> > The minor key related to D-flat major is C-sharp minor having five
> sharps.
>> > There is no recognised key of C-sharp major because there would be both
> F
>> > and F-sharp plus C and C-sharp in the same scale.
>> >
>> > So the joke ought to be ....
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Bob Smith
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
>> > http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>