[Dixielandjazz] New Orleans Jazz Vipers redux back on list
TCASHWIGG at aol.com
TCASHWIGG at aol.com
Thu Dec 2 19:59:16 PST 2004
----- Original Message -----
From: <TCASHWIGG at aol.com>
To: <robert at ringwald.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] New Orleans Jazz Vipers
> In a message dated 12/2/04 11:53:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> robert at ringwald.com writes:
>> then again maybe jazz societies prefer to not have any of those Bywater
Punks bringing their money to hear some real music.
>> I wonder why you must always be so negative &sarcastic? Sure leaves a >>
>> taste in your mouth after reading a negative comment such as this one.
Geeze, I meant to post this to the list & start another thread but I see
that it only went to you.
> Hi Bob:
> Sorry mate, I was not trying to be negative or sarcastic at all, just
> pointing out the reality that indeed exists all around us all over the
But, you can point it out without demeaning Jazz Societies, for instance.
>> In Sacramento for instance, we are working very hard to get younger
>> people involved in OKOM.
> Of course, and I am not trying to demean the Jazz Societies, merely
pointing out valid observations of some of their activities and none activities, and
I am very well aware of that, Sacramento is probably at the forefront, you
might however, broaden your efforts to go reach out to those other kids in the
community that fit the
> description of those known as the Bywater punks in New Orleans.
We are doing more community outreach to the minority community.
Is that so? How many Latin or Native American bands have you hired?
Besides the Geat Paco Gatsby. Many of them play Jazz and Blues too and have
followings in their respective communities. How many Dixieland Bands do you
expect to get hired by the Indian Casinos surrounding Sacramento?
How many Black Bands or predominately Black Bands have you booked?
From Blues to Jazz to Dixieland R&B and professional Gospel, etc., you can
reach out to them all you want but if you don't program some entertainment that
they will pay to see they are not going to come and you can't lay the blame
for them not coming on the fact that they did not accept the reach out to them.
I am not talking here of a Token Black guy in a Zydeco or Blues band, or not
even the three very talented and lovely Black American Singers that I saw
last time I attended. Two of them perform mostly to White audiences one as a
standard Jazz singer in Stockton and the other as the featured singer and wife in
Dick Johnson's Dixieland band.
The third one was a very fine singer from the Los Angeles area that is a
staple on the White Dixieland circuit and I attended her show last time I was
there and as I said it was a white audience for her show.
What would you say to Booking a Punk Dixieland Show?
I happen to know where one is close to Sacramento, it is made up of classical
and symphony players in Oakland and San Francisco. And Yes they Dress and
Look like Punks, so I am certain that would make their musical offerings
objectionable to the general OKOM audiences that Sacramento and other societies wish
That is not the same thing by any means. You have to book acts and artists
that mean something to the market you are trying to woo. Now how many Black
Dixieland clubs do you know of in the Sacramento market? I have both hands out
and my shoes off and ready, I still have all my fingers and toes and have not
used one of them to count down yet.
> They are probably a lot more easy to convert than the Kymmi's, they are d
esperately searching for somewhere to be and be accepted by other people and
need that extra prod
> to get them motivated and made to feel welcome rather than shunned and
> because of the way they choose to look.
Then tell 'em to look presentable. no one, at least me, wants some jerk
around with a safety pin through their nose.
Now there you go mate: Being a prominent and powerful member of the board of
directors of the Sacramento Jubilee you are expressly putting forth the exact
attitude of what I spoke above that you thought so distasteful. Money is
Green and paid attendance's are paid attendance's. To discourage a guy with a
safety pin in his nose or through his nipples is the same as telling a Black
person or a gay person that they are really not welcome or wanted at the Jubilee
no matter if he likes the music or not.
How much bad taste do you think the Sacramento Community and other
communities with jazz society sponsored events have because of these kind of attitudes.
Now if the Shoe fits wear it.
> I have found many of those kids in the inner cities to be very intelligent
> and wonderful non druggies or criminals as they are projected to be by
> most of society. And so have the Jazz Vipers in New Orleans obviously.
Many of them simply have never been accepted by the so called nice kids
> that conform to what most parents want their kids to be and look like.
If my kid looked like that I'd shoot myself, or him.
Yeah, and I'll bet your Dad said that the first time you showed up wearing a
Zuit Suit too, or slicked down your hair with Dixie pomade, and got your first
crew cut haircut and listened to your first Rock and Roll record, wore bell
bottom pants and went to a Disco. Heck man I just saw Rev. Jim & Tammy Faye
Baker's kids on Good Morning America, and the daughter looked like a Gothic
Chick, and the boy looked more like a Federal Penitentiary convict than his Father
who is one. This kid had tattoos all over his body and things stuck through
his nose and ears and lip and who know where else. And that is your far Right
wing Christian family and it is not bothering them and he is a fine young man
who is probably reaching a lot further into those communities than all the
jazz societies put together.
My own Father told me that if I ever came home with a crew cut hair cut I
would not be welcome in his house. So I grew my hair long in the sixties while
he was sporting a crew cut which he wore for the rest of his life. My own kids
have all elected to be stylish and shave their heads and or wear their hair
very short, while I still keep mine long enough to be over my ears. Two of
them opted for the Tattoo route as well, which I find distasteful personally, but
they were quick to point out that Grandpa had tattoos and we have photos of
him when he was in the Navy wearing an ear ring.
> We already lost it with most of our own kids who rebelled against
> everything we wanted them to do and went their own way in spite of our
> hoping that they would be like us. They just don't feel connected with us
> and our set of friends, at least until later in life when they do tend to
> back and start to enjoy what they ran away from.
> We do however have another shot at it with the grandkids who are ready and
> willing to embrace OKOM with open eyes and ears especially when they find >
> are welcome here. It is supposed to be about the MUSIC.
> One of our very active members is Kymmi Smith, also a > member of DJML.
>> She is about 17 or 18 &is our youth advisor. She is the > head of a
>> committee within our Jazz Society.
> Yes, I have met Kymmi and she is a delightful young lady and certainly one
> be proud of and keep motivated, however she represents only a small
> percentage of the available youth marketplace out there, and I am certain
> her Mom does not allow her to hang out with those kids with the tattoos
I was very surprised to see almost every young teenager in Northern Spain
> sporting such attire and yet dancing and attending jazz events as if they
> had been doing it all their lives and they were enjoying it as well.
When we played in Hungary, all age groups came out & loved our music. Maybe
they haven't been brainwashed by the media yet? I'm sure they will get to
them sooner or later.
Yes, that is typical radio programming in many parts of Europe as they are
still very thirsty for American music, "Our Only Contribution to World Culture"
I noticed in England when I was there a few years ago, the eclectic music
you would hear on the radio & as background music in restaurants. You'd
hear a rock tune followed by a Dixieland tune, followed by a folk tune, etc.
The last time I was there, this last summer, it wasn't so much like that.
More Rock & less other types of music. The media & big business is getting
to them also.
No question about it, Clear Channel is at the head of globalizing their
program and monopolizing the radio and live entertainment business and they are
very big in Europe as well as being the major player in the USA. But let us all
remember that MCA tried to do the same thing not so long ago and failed.
Clear Channel is not without it's oppositions and lawsuits either.
> The European market seems to just embrace and enjoy many more styles of
> music than what we do here in the USA. We are too compartmentalized I
> and on that constant quest for something new to take a breath and respect
> we already have and what we created here. Unfortunately this came about I
> believe from marketing trends by the major labels over the years to keep
> the game in the ever pursuit of advertising dollars and record sales to the
>> Also, if you notice the demographics of our Sacramento Jazz Jubilee, we
>> attract a wide range of age groups.
> Yes I have been there and observed it firsthand, a very wide range of
> from fifty to ninety and many ladies claiming to be forty and thirty
something, you know how they like to lie about their ages (smile)
The only youth I saw in any recognizable numbers were the youth bands on
the program, I certainly did not see a countable number of young people
wearing paid badges or going into any of the venues. Even the visits I
experienced to the kids area did not have in my opinion sufficient numbers of kids
there to warrant the expense of having it available. Not that it was not good,
or necessary, but it could be expanded and promoted more to get more families
with children to bring them and attend and expose them to the music genre.
We are working on it. And we are doing better than some other festivals.
Some I play for the average age of the attendees is dead.
Great glad to hear it, now you know why I try to speak generically in my
posts, as I do not want to offend anyone who is doing anything positive nor
discourage them with my opinions, as I sincerely always mean to spout off in a
constructive way in the hopes that some will get the intended message and see that
they can make changes for the better in their respective organizations to do
what it is they all say they wish to do, Preserve and promote OKOM.
Washboard Willie is an excellent act for those kids and I could only hope
you could find more like him, he is not a bad act for Adults either, he is a
very talented young man and
> enthusiastic about his work.
Yes, we are constantly looking.
Try a simple purchase of the Cavalcade of Arts & Attractions published every
year by Amusement Business, they have thousands of acts to choose from who
would love to play Sacramento and anywhere else. You might also purchase a copy
of Billboard's Talent and Touring Directory which list thousands more
professional acts and ALL THE HEADLINERS you could ever wish for.
> I would venture to say you could actually set up and promote a children's
> show area at the Cal Expo site and charge a separate admission for families
> pack it if you marketed it correctly, like through the grammar schools.
> is always a great shortage of Children's entertainment and events that a
Family can attend with the kids and have a good time. There are also
unbelievable amounts of Sponsorship money available for something like that if you know
where to look for it. Even from Toothpaste and mouthwash companies,
We will have a new kids area this next year.
Great I will look forward to it.
> I attended the Jubilee specifically to see what was going on and to
> compare it with other events that I have been to and or promoted or been
> affiliated with over the past 40 years.
>> You know, the glass could be half full, instead of half empty. (smile)
> Yes, of course but after 80 years of trying to fill it, one would think we
> could at least get to three quarters by now. Smile,
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