[Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players

[john petters]

Dick said
> Hate to see Kenny G's name even mentioned on this list.  Smooth jazz has
as
> much to do with our music as Jazz computer drives and Jazz dancing
Seems to me that the problem lies with the fact that the word 'jazz' has
been hijacked. When asked I always say I play traditional jazz or Dixieland
or New Orleans or Swing.
John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Broadie" <richard.broadie at gte.net>
To: <JimDBB at aol.com>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players


.   Guess
> you can call Kenny G music if you choose to, but it is not mkom (my kind
of
> music)  or Jazz   Dick.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <JimDBB at aol.com>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 6:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/16/2003 3:12:29 PM Central Standard Time,
> > barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > > JimDBB at aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >In a message dated 7/15/2003 11:36:54 AM Central Standard Time,
> > > >barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
> > > >
> > > >>>As a cornetist, I think, relative to "high", that Hackett was right
> > > >on
> > > >>when he told the prospective buyer of one of his
> > > >>>horns that it was "like new" because he had "hardly ever played it
> > > >above
> > > >>the staff".
> > > >>
> > > >>Sure, agreed. But so what? That is how Hackett heard music. It
> > > >should also
> > > >>be pointed out that Hackett was no Louis
> > > >>Armstrong.
> > > >
> > > >  Steve...Bobby Hackett's remark was a joke.  Bobby was his own
> > > >unique and
> > > >beautiful soul.  One of the great standouts in the recorded history
of
> > > >live
> > > >jazz concerts was the marvelous duet that Bobby and Louis played on
> > > >"Ol Rockin'  chair" at the Town Hall concert.
> > > >
> > >
> > > We are saying the exact same thing here, Jim. I agree as do my words
> > > above.
> > >
> > > >>"> No, list to Clifford Brown. And also, Louis was one of the
loudest
> > > >
> > > >>trumpet players of his day. Loudness was a key ingredient
> > > >>of his playing as well as that of Buddy Bolden (by anecdotal
> > > >evidence). That
> > > >>is part of what made him great.
> > > >
> > > >  Loudness was not a part of what made Louis great.  Louis's sound
> > > >was
> > > >brilliant  which tended to make him sound loud on recordings but in
> > > >actual fact, if you were there, he was not playing excessively loud.
> > >
> > > Louis' own words say: "When we made those Gennett records, Joe wasn't
in
> > > his prime like before he sent for me. To show you how much louder I
was
> > > in those days, those were acoustical records, with those big horns.
Joe
> > > would be playing right in the horn, blowing, and I would be standing
> > > back in the door playing second trumpet." Do you deny what Louis said
> > > about his loudness? Were either of us there to hear him during his
> > > greatest years?  If not, then we have no valid opinion and should try
> > > and learn from what Louis said about it.
> > >
> >
> >   Well, I can't argue with the master himself.  You got me there.
> >
> > > >>>But the mastery without taste and intelligence  . . . hey, Kenny
> > > >G!! .   I
> > > >>have met classical  (and some big band) players
> > > >>>who can play the Arban exercises flawlessly but who couldn't play
> > > >an ad lib
> > > >>solo to save their lives. There's more to it
> > > >>>than technology.
> > > >>
> > > >>Wrong analogy, Kenny G is hardly a master of his instrument. In
> > > >fact, he is
> > > >>less of a master than most  jazz saxophone
> > > >>players in Jazz today. That is part of why some players view him
> > > >with
> > > >>contempt.
> > > >
> > > >  Kenny G is a master of the soprano sax...he just doesn't happen to
> > > >sound
> > > >like sydney Bechet.   Kenny G has never advertised himself as a great
> > > >jazz
> > > >player and has shown no pretensions in this arena.  He is what he is
> > > >and he does
> > > >his music very well.  I don't know of any pros who 'view him with
> > > >contempt.'
> > >
> > > Disagree about "mastery", disagree about pros who view him with
> > > contempt. There are MANY "pros" who view him with contempt. Shall I
make
> > > a list for you?
> > >
> > To deny Kenny G his talent and mastery is foolish.  I know that he is an
> easy
> > target for disgruntled jazzbos but that shouldn't be.  Remember the same
> > mocking and disparagements directed at Liberace.  the truth is that Lib
> was a hell
> > of a pianist.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > >>Why quibble over definitions. The word got a "c" where an "e" would
> > > >have
> > > >>been better used. Big whoop. What Brown plays is
> > > >>much more difficult that what Louis played. He is also light years
> > > >ahead of
> > > >>Louis "harmonically".
> > > >
> > > >  You've made a lot of comments about Louis 'is this and that etc.
> > > >and now
> > > >this statement that Brown is 'light years' ahead of Louis
> > > >'harmonically.'
> > >
> > > No, it is just a TRUE assessment of Brown v. Armstrong as far as their
> > > harmonic knowledge and execution is concerned. A natural development
in
> > > light of the changing nature of music.
> > >
> > > >This
> > > >shows once again that you really don't get Armstrong.  Maybe one day
> > > >you will
> > > >and your life will be richer for it.  Meanwhile, quit pretending that
> > > >you
> > > >understand and love Louis Armstrong's music
> > >
> > > Why would you say something like that? Why would you pretend that you
> > > can look into my mind and assess my "understanding". Jim, you know
> > > better than that. To disagree is one thing, but to mis characterize
me,
> > > or my love for Armstrong's music is quite another, as well as totally
> > > wrong headed.
> > >
> > You've got me again.  I should never have said this and I retract it.
> >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Steve
> >
> >
> >   Regards,   Jim Beebe
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
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