[Dixielandjazz] Pops vs Mops

Wed Jul 16 16:17:40 PDT 2003

Steve said
>It's that kind of narrow minded thinking that "kills" >anything artistic.
Not so Steve. Are you seriously comparing the quality of the art of
Merseybeat with that that came from jazz of any style. Pop music has
undergone a dumming down since the days of Rock'n' Roll in the 50s. The
Beatles were part of that decline which has led us to the pitiful row that
passes for music these days. I'm all for art, but in music lets have some
melody, some lyrics and most of all some swing. Pre Rock you had the
intelligence of Carmichael, together with the elegance of Elllington, the
poerty of Mercer and much more. In the 60s we had 'She Loves You Yeah Yeah
Yeah' and 'I can't get no Satisfaction'. Give me 'Memphis in June' or
'Skylark' anyday. Thats art.
The constant feeding of the young on Rock at the expense of all else has
more than any other cause, contributed to the lack of appreciation of Jazz,
where a degree of effort is required of the listener. Even BBC Radio2, which
was set up in the mid 60s to play what was called 'Light' music is now
playing 90 percent garbage from the Rock decades. Jazz is now shoved into
specialsed ghetto slots. The result - those that dilslike Rock music have
migrated to Classic FM, which is doing very well and less jazz is heard on
network radio and no live trafditional jazz has been brodcast for ages.
Its not my narrow mindedness that kills anything artistic, it is the
narrowmindedness of the those that control the media.

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoog, Steve" <Steve.Hoog at rockhurst.edu>
To: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Pops vs Mops

-----Original Message-----
From: john petters [mailto:jpettjazz at btinternet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:45 AM
To: Hoog, Steve
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Pops vs Mops

Steve said
>Keep in mind, though, that the Beatles didn't really hit in the US until
very late 1963 at the earliest, it wasn't until Feb 1964 that they did the
Sullivan show and really took >off here.
Yes the month that music that matters died

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hoog, Steve" <Steve.Hoog at rockhurst.edu>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 2:18 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Pops vs Mops

It's possible to respect a person's art but not consider him/her the
ULTIMATE.

A slight correction to the statement

"'Hello Dolly'  1963 - Number 1 on the charts, beat out the Beatles."

steve

-----Original Message-----
From: dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com
[mailto:dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:16 PM
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 7, Issue 46

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Today's Topics:

   1. RE: More than one Euphonium (Texasjazzlover)
   2. Re: Re: British Trad - Max Collie (Don Ingle)
   3. Re: More than one Euphonium (Jerry Gordon)
   4. Re: Re: Better Players (john petters)
   5. Re: Re: Better Players (john petters)
   6. Copying Louis (Butch Thompson)
   7. What's New (Don Ingle)
   8. Armstrong and Hackett (Butch Thompson)
   9. New Tunes (Stephen Barbone)
  10. Re: New Tunes (john petters)
  11. Re: What's New (john petters)
  12. Re: stylistic crossover  p.s. to Dave Gravatt (Dave Gravatt)
  13. Newsletter 107 - July
  14. Re: Copying Louis (Cees van den Heuvel)
  15. Re: Copying Louis (Cees van den Heuvel)
  16. Re: More than one Euphonium
  17. RE: Two questions (Texasjazzlover)
  18. Re: New Tunes (Phil O'Rourke)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:07:15 -0500
From: "Texasjazzlover" <rebecca.e.thompson at verizon.net>
To: "Jerry Gordon" <jerrygordon at juno.com>,
"DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] More than one Euphonium
Message-ID: <NFBBLGECELIKKECOHHFPEEJDECAA.rebecca.e.thompson at verizon.net>
In-Reply-To: <20030715.014618.1396.23.jerrygordon at juno.com>
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Message: 1

 (one who plays for the enjoyment
and not the money)

Now THAT'S funny!!!

How many RICH washboard players are there?

Rebecca

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:22:37 -0400
From: "Don Ingle" <dingle at baldwin-net.com>
To: <JimDBB at aol.com>,
<dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: British Trad - Max Collie
Message-ID: <004e01c34b0e$d72bc0a0$9a9eb0c7 at compaq>
References: <12e.2e0c1826.2c44c8ec at aol.com>
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Ahem! I was waiting for someone to brings that up!
And will anyone forget the fisticuffs between Bill Bacin and Johnson in the
parking lot following the debacle?
Ahh, the good old days!
Don Ingle
----- Original Message -----
From: <JimDBB at aol.com>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: British Trad - Max Collie

> In a message dated 7/14/2003 7:21:32 PM Central Standard Time,
> bhaesler at nsw.bigpond.net.au writes:
>
> > Dear Terry,
> > Give my kindest regards to my dear mate Max when you see him tomorrow.
> > We grew up in jazz together in Melbourne, Australia.
> > Then he took off to Pomgolia with The Melbourne New Orleans Jazz Band in
> > April
> > 1962 and never returned.
> > I only see him when we go there, or he visits family in Oz.
> > Very kind regards,
> > Bill.
> >
>   And tell Max that the musicians who got screwed by him and Sam Johnson
at
> the Indianapolis Jazz Festival debacle are waiting for him to return to
the
> U.S.
>
> Jim Beebe
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:23:13 -0400
From: Jerry Gordon <jerrygordon at juno.com>
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] More than one Euphonium
Message-ID: <20030715.162314.1404.20.jerrygordon at juno.com>
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:07:15 -0500 "Texasjazzlover"
<rebecca.e.thompson at verizon.net> writes:
>
>  (one who plays for the enjoyment
> and not the money)
>
> Now THAT'S funny!!!
>
> How many RICH washboard players are there?
>
> Rebecca

We're rich in rhythm, rich in thimbles, and rich in the hearts of our
countrymen.

Jerry "It's not the real thing, just a cymbal" Gordon, Troy, NY
Web master for http://www.timesunion.com/communities/jazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:27:13 +0100
From: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players
Message-ID: <002d01c34b0f$7a3f0950$b1fefea9 at johnpetters>
References: <20030715185508.16791.qmail at web80005.mail.yahoo.com>
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David said
> Unfortunately, the younger people in OKOM (myself
> included) never had the chance to hear Louis live. All
> we have heard of Louis is from scratchy LPs or CDs
> made from 70-year-old masters.

I never heard Louis live, but I can hear that tone and phrasing. Blaming
recording techniques is not the answer.

 Early microphone
> technology just didn't capture his sound. I can hear
> the phrasing and timing but the "glistening sound" of
> his horn just doesn't come across in the recordings.
> It makes it harder for us to fairly compare Louis with
> today's performers who make digital recordings that
> can capture so much more of a performance to tape...
> or should I say "hard drive."

Not so - the Hot Severn recordings are in good fidelity. Moving onto the 50s
and 60s the sound is Hi Fi - what more could you desire.

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Livingston" <snargi01 at yahoo.com>
To: <JimDBB at aol.com>; <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players

>
> >   Cripes...do I have to keep repeating myself.
> > Nobody, dead or alive can
> > play Louis Armstrong's classic solos ( say West End
> > Blues or Potato Head Blues)
> > with the same phrasing and timing.  many have tried
> > and all failed.
> >
> >   You are assuming because one may seem to have the
> > technical facility, that
> > he can easily crack off an Armstrong solo.  But you
> > are overlooking
> > Armstrong's masterful phrasing and timing, and that
> > glistening sound.  those things
> > cannot be duplicated.  As you said your self, the
> > hard part is the fire, the
> > feeling...these guys don't have it.
> >
> > If I had 1000K I would place it out there for anyone
> > who could duplicate an
> > Armstrong solo to the satisfaction of a small and
> > select group of judges.
> >
> > Jim Beebe
>
>
> Dave Livingston
> Dixieland Gumbo -- Internet Radio
> Today's hot bands playing OKOM!
> http://www.dixielandgumbo.com/
>
> If you are interested in getting airplay for your
> traditional Jazz recordings, contact me at davel at dixielandgumbo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 21:29:16 +0100
From: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players
Message-ID: <003401c34b0f$c3f08ba0$b1fefea9 at johnpetters>
References: <1cf.ddbd87f.2c459db5 at aol.com>
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Jim said
>   Cripes...do I have to keep repeating myself.  Nobody, dead or alive can
> play Louis Armstrong's classic solos ( say West End Blues or Potato Head
Blues)
> with the same phrasing and timing.  many have tried and all failed.
>
>   You are assuming because one may seem to have the technical facility,
that
> he can easily crack off an Armstrong solo.  But you are overlooking
> Armstrong's masterful phrasing and timing, and that glistening sound.
those things
> cannot be duplicated.  As you said your self, the hard part is the fire,
the
> feeling...these guys don't have it.
>
> If I had 1000K I would place it out there for anyone who could duplicate
an
> Armstrong solo to the satisfaction of a small and select group of judges.
>
Your money would be safe Jim. He was unique. Who was it that said afterr God
comes Louis. It was true then and its true now.

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <JimDBB at aol.com>
To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Re: Better Players

> In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:24:21 AM Central Standard Time,
> barbonestreet at earthlink.net writes:
>
> > Regarding someone's comment that Clifford Brown couldn't play what Louis
> > played, that is just not the case. Clifford
> > had all the ammunition. Excellent tone, great feel/fire, great ideas,
and a
> > great melodic approach. To deny that he
> > outplays Louis is simply a case of tunnel vision, or being stuck in the
> > musical time warp of the 1920s / 30s.
> >
> > Many players today easily replicate exactly what Louis played. I can
recall
> > Peter Ecklund doing so, as well as others.
> > The hard part is the fire, the feeling, and the fact that Louis was THE
> > ORIGINATOR.
> >
> > But then, as powerful as they are, fire and feel are subjective measures
as
> > interpreted by each of us differently. The
> > numbered measurements above are completely objective. If you answer
"yes" to
> > them regarding a player like Brown what
> > possible conclusion can you reach except that Brown plays better?
>
> Jim Beebe
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:34 -0500
From: Butch Thompson <butcht at sihope.com>
To: djml <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Copying Louis
Message-ID: <BB39D16A.2BB9%butcht at sihope.com>
In-Reply-To: <E19cV1z-0001Y4-04 at ml.islandnet.com>
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Here's what I'm wondering:  If Louis Armstrong is so easy to copy, why have
I never heard anyone do it successfully?

I'm with Jim Beebe.  It has not and cannot be done.

Butch Thompson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:35:17 -0400
From: "Don Ingle" <dingle at baldwin-net.com>
To: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>,
"DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] What's New
Message-ID: <007a01c34b10$a06c06e0$9a9eb0c7 at compaq>
References: <4e.1f34e06a.2c44cfd4 at aol.com>
<000d01c34aaf$08db7c40$b1fefea9 at johnpetters>
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Re: What's New -- Louis was wonderful singing or playing. But for me, as a
personal choice, when I want to hear What's New I turn to the original of it
with Billy Butterfield, with Crosby Band,  a song written to be played by
him. It still is my fav version, though many others have done it honor.
But it remains, for me, Billy's tune.
This in no way negate my ultimate respect for Louis'  touch to the heart
when he played. His was soul music long before it became a catch word for
other  black music.
Don Ingle
> Jim, it looks like you and I are are on n the same wavelength. I looked
> through my CD collection for a Clifford Brown recording. Found one. 'Whats
> New' on a compilation album. Played it. Fine. Good playing - but not the
> depth of the Louis version he did with Peterson, where he doesn't even
pick
> up the trumpet. ailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:01:55 -0500
From: Butch Thompson <butcht at sihope.com>
To: djml <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Armstrong and Hackett
Message-ID: <BB39D5F3.2BBF%butcht at sihope.com>
In-Reply-To: <E19cV1z-0001Y4-04 at ml.islandnet.com>
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On 7/15/03 2:00 PM, "dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com"
<dixielandjazz-request at ml.islandnet.com> wrote:

 It should also be pointed out that Hackett
> was no Louis
> Armstrong.

True enough, Steve, and Hackett would be the very first one to say so, of
course.  He worshipped Louis, but never tried to copy him.  Instead, he
created his own unique sound, which is why we remember him so fondly.

Butch Thompson

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:00:04 -0400
From: Stephen Barbone <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: Dixieland Jazz Mailing List <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] New Tunes
Message-ID: <3F146B54.9C988DE3 at earthlink.net>
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Message: 9

Since we all agree that Louis was the greatest, we might take a lesson
from him about "new" tunes.

"Hello Dolly"  1963 - Number 1 on the charts, beat out the Beatles.
(Yeah, I know, the nay sayers will declaim the tune sucked and so on and
so forth, nobody liked it except the world wide audience)

"What a Wonderful World" (Same comments as above because it was really
popularized by Robin Williams in Good Morning Vietnam) Besides the early
versions, check out the 1967 version with J. J. Johnson, Urbie Green,
Clark Terry, Grady Tate, 12 Strings and a bunch of other modern jazzers
backing his vocal.

All of the Duke Ellington tunes he did in 1961 with Duke on Piano
subbing for Billy Kyle, but with the rest of the All Stars. (Cottontail,
Black & Tan Fantasy, In My Solitude, The Mooche, etc)

His Country Western Album with the Nashville Rhythm Boys.

His 1957 album with Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis Ray Brown and Louis
Bellson which included about 10 tunes not usually associated with
Dixieland.

His 1956 Album with Ella Fitzgerald. Same musicians as above except
Buddy Rich is on drums instead of Bellson for some and Bellson is on for
the rest. Many tunes not associated with Dixieland.

Nor should we dismiss the 1968 recording of "Disney Songs the Satchmo
Way", including Chim Chim Cheree.

Or did Louis Armstrong sell out to commercialism? ;-)

Regarding Jim Beebe's money challenge, it is wise to remember that Louis
himself had some blank moments during his 1949 "blindfold" listening
test said Louis:
"For a moment it sounded like Johnny Dodds, for a moment it sounded like
Ed Hall. That trumpet wouldn't be Dominique would it? Or Wingy?. Piano
doesn't impress me, sounds like baby Dodds on drums . . . 3 stars.

Clarinet? Sidney Bechet.
Trumpet? Wild Bill Davison
Piano? Art Hodes.
Drums? Freddie Moore
>From the album under Art Hodes lead, "Way Down Yonder in New Orleans"

By the same token he said of another album: "The clarinet is trying to
tell a story, you can follow him. He could not identify him. He gave
that album 4 stars. It was a Bunk Johnson group with George Lewis on
clarinet.

If I were a betting man, I would bet that there are several trumpet
players around today that could exactly duplicate Louis' solos note for
note and get the phrasing right and the sound close enough to fool 95 %
of the people in the world who have heard Louis Armstrong play.

Regarding High Notes:

"Louis' reputation soared. Musicians came to decide for themselves
whether he was as actually good as they'd heard he was. Several
suspected Louis plugged his horn with chewing gum in order to achieve
his earsplitting highs . . .Louis was happy to show his mouthpiece to
anyone who cared to inspect it to scotch that rumor, and then wailed out
on the bandstand. When Louis blew, hitting as many as 200 high C's in a
row, the effect was astounding, numbing, and exhilarating. listeners
thought they heard even more notes than he was actually blowing as the
excitement spread from their ears to their brains and fingertips. Once
he had everyone's attention, he proceeded to bend the notes as if he
were putting a spin on a ball."

"Although they were initially attracted by his power (the ear splitting
volume) and his virtuosity (his rapidly running notes) musicians stayed
to listen because Louis taught them a new approach to jazz."

High, loud and fast don't count? As Louis, a consummate brass player
would say, UUMPH!

Cheers,
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:37:46 +0100
From: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] New Tunes
Message-ID: <002601c34b19$d988e980$b1fefea9 at johnpetters>
References: <3F146B54.9C988DE3 at earthlink.net>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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> If I were a betting man, I would bet that there are several trumpet
> players around today that could exactly duplicate Louis' solos note for
> note and get the phrasing right and the sound close enough to fool 95 %
> of the people in the world who have heard Louis Armstrong play.
Steve you really are digging yourself into a hole on this one. Would you
care to name a trumpet player who could fool Jim, Butch or myself? I can
name plenty of hot players - but none come near to Louis.

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Barbone" <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
To: "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:00 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] New Tunes

> Since we all agree that Louis was the greatest, we might take a lesson
> from him about "new" tunes.
>
> "Hello Dolly"  1963 - Number 1 on the charts, beat out the Beatles.
> (Yeah, I know, the nay sayers will declaim the tune sucked and so on and
> so forth, nobody liked it except the world wide audience)
>
> "What a Wonderful World" (Same comments as above because it was really
> popularized by Robin Williams in Good Morning Vietnam) Besides the early
> versions, check out the 1967 version with J. J. Johnson, Urbie Green,
> Clark Terry, Grady Tate, 12 Strings and a bunch of other modern jazzers
> backing his vocal.
>
> All of the Duke Ellington tunes he did in 1961 with Duke on Piano
> subbing for Billy Kyle, but with the rest of the All Stars. (Cottontail,
> Black & Tan Fantasy, In My Solitude, The Mooche, etc)
>
> His Country Western Album with the Nashville Rhythm Boys.
>
> His 1957 album with Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis Ray Brown and Louis
> Bellson which included about 10 tunes not usually associated with
> Dixieland.
>
> His 1956 Album with Ella Fitzgerald. Same musicians as above except
> Buddy Rich is on drums instead of Bellson for some and Bellson is on for
> the rest. Many tunes not associated with Dixieland.
>
> Nor should we dismiss the 1968 recording of "Disney Songs the Satchmo
> Way", including Chim Chim Cheree.
>
> Or did Louis Armstrong sell out to commercialism? ;-)
>
> Regarding Jim Beebe's money challenge, it is wise to remember that Louis
> himself had some blank moments during his 1949 "blindfold" listening
> test said Louis:
> "For a moment it sounded like Johnny Dodds, for a moment it sounded like
> Ed Hall. That trumpet wouldn't be Dominique would it? Or Wingy?. Piano
> doesn't impress me, sounds like baby Dodds on drums . . . 3 stars.
>
> Clarinet? Sidney Bechet.
> Trumpet? Wild Bill Davison
> Piano? Art Hodes.
> Drums? Freddie Moore
> >From the album under Art Hodes lead, "Way Down Yonder in New Orleans"
>
> By the same token he said of another album: "The clarinet is trying to
> tell a story, you can follow him. He could not identify him. He gave
> that album 4 stars. It was a Bunk Johnson group with George Lewis on
> clarinet.
>
>
> Regarding High Notes:
>
> "Louis' reputation soared. Musicians came to decide for themselves
> whether he was as actually good as they'd heard he was. Several
> suspected Louis plugged his horn with chewing gum in order to achieve
> his earsplitting highs . . .Louis was happy to show his mouthpiece to
> anyone who cared to inspect it to scotch that rumor, and then wailed out
> on the bandstand. When Louis blew, hitting as many as 200 high C's in a
> row, the effect was astounding, numbing, and exhilarating. listeners
> thought they heard even more notes than he was actually blowing as the
> excitement spread from their ears to their brains and fingertips. Once
> he had everyone's attention, he proceeded to bend the notes as if he
> were putting a spin on a ball."
>
> "Although they were initially attracted by his power (the ear splitting
> volume) and his virtuosity (his rapidly running notes) musicians stayed
> to listen because Louis taught them a new approach to jazz."
>
> High, loud and fast don't count? As Louis, a consummate brass player
> would say, UUMPH!
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:40:21 +0100
From: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>
To: "DJML" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] What's New
Message-ID: <002701c34b19$daa6b590$b1fefea9 at johnpetters>
References:
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Don said
> Re: What's New -- Louis was wonderful singing or playing. But for me, as a
> personal choice, when I want to hear What's New I turn to the original of
it
> with Billy Butterfield, with Crosby Band,  a song written to be played by
> him
Good choice Don. Its a great recordingm My regret is that when I did a
couple of Gigs with Billy he was really too ill to play and shoukd have
packed it in. Unlike Yank who in 1986 was blowing as strong as ever.
Re What's New, Bing's vrsion is pretty good too

John Petters
Amateur Radio Station G3YPZ
www.traditional-jazz.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Ingle" <dingle at baldwin-net.com>
To: "john petters" <jpettjazz at btinternet.com>; "DJML"
<dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] What's New

. It still is my fav version, though many others have done it honor.
> But it remains, for me, Billy's tune.
> This in no way negate my ultimate respect for Louis'  touch to the heart
> when he played. His was soul music long before it became a catch word for
> other  black music.
> Don Ingle
> > Jim, it looks like you and I are are on n the same wavelength. I looked
> > through my CD collection for a Clifford Brown recording. Found one.
'Whats
> > New' on a compilation album. Played it. Fine. Good playing - but not the
> > depth of the Louis version he did with Peterson, where he doesn't even
> pick
> > up the trumpet. ailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 16:54:48 -0500
From: "Dave Gravatt" <dave at creolejazz.com>
To: "Richard Crockett" <rcrockett1 at houston.rr.com>,
"dix" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] stylistic crossover  p.s. to Dave Gravatt
Message-ID: <002c01c34b1b$c29ee7e0$7a3a4840 at l3j8g7>
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Message: 12

Dick,

The story of "The Letter", as I understand it, is that the late, great Jim
Snyder who was, at the time, playing bone with Terry Waldo's Gutbucket
Syncopators, had a teenager who was having trouble relating to Dad's music.
So, Jim took "The Letter", a popular rock tune recorded  by "The Boxtops" in
the '60s, and did it up trad jazz style in hopes of getting his teenager to
"understand". The Syncopators recorded it in 1974. The changes are fun and
the tune is hot!

When I was in school in New Mexico, our group, "The Creole Dixieland Jazz
Band", stole the tune from The Syncopators and recorded it in 1987. When I
came to Springfield, Missouri and was playing with Hoover's group, "The
Firehouse Dixieland Jazz Band", we stole it again and played it with that
group. Our present group from Springfield, "The Creole Dixieland Jazz Band"
(yeah, I know, I don't have much of an imagination so I named the band the
same as the one in New Mexico), plays the tune a lot these days.

To come full circle with the story: "The Letter" was written by Wayne Carson
who is from and lived at the time in Springfield, Missouri. He lives now in
Nashville, or so I'm told.

To answer your question....I'm not sure. There may be a recording or two of
it by someone or another around here somewhere. Send me your snail mail
address and I'll put one in the mail for you if you want.

No word on whether Jim's kid likes jazz these days or not.

Dave
====================
The Creole Dixieland Jazz Band
"It's a treat to beat your feet"
417-581-5626
Springfield, Missouri
http://www.CreoleJazz.com and
http://www.Syncopation-Enterprises.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Crockett" <rcrockett1 at houston.rr.com>
To: "dix" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 4:15 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] stylistic crossover p.s. to Dave Gravatt

> Jerry Hoover's Firehouse Band out of Springfield MO played an arrangement
of
> "The Letter" (rock tune from the 1970's) that worked so well I'm amazed
that
> someone didn't re-release it as a single. It was "stomped-down early jazz"
> style complete with banjo, tuba, and tailgate.
>
> dc
> p.s. to Dave Gravatt: is there a recording of that arrangement somewhere?
I
> need it in my archives.
>
> dc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:55:47 EDT
From: Jazzjerry at aol.com
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Newsletter 107 - July
Message-ID: <4a.1fb3dc87.2c45d263 at aol.com>
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Message: 13

Hi all,

Just to let you know that my July Newsletter is available should anyone like
a copy. All you have to do is let me know. This month the pdf version runs
to
around 40 pages and 23,000 words. Thinking of recent discussion topics on
the
DJML there are newly released CDs by Clifford Brown and Louis Armstrong (but
unfortunately not playing together 'cos then we could really answer some
questions!) as well as Wendell Brunious, Bunk Johnson and even the Hoosier
Hotshots
(a 4xcd set of the Hoosiers is quite hard going at one listening!)

Lots of goodies for all tastes.

Cheers,

Jerry,
Norwich,
U.K.
------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:10:43 +0200
From: "Cees van den Heuvel" <heu at bart.nl>
To: "Butch Thompson" <butcht at sihope.com>,
"djml" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Copying Louis
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There is an easy way to test it for everyone.
Listnen to an Armstrong vocal as many times
as you think nessecary to get it right.
Then play the record or CD and try to
sing along. You'll find out you'll never get
it exactly right, and will understand the miracle
of Armstrong's timing!

Cees van den Heuvel
www.revivaljassband.com
heu at bart.nl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Butch Thompson" <butcht at sihope.com>
To: "djml" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Copying Louis

>
> Here's what I'm wondering:  If Louis Armstrong is so easy to copy, why
have
> I never heard anyone do it successfully?
>
> I'm with Jim Beebe.  It has not and cannot be done.
>
> Butch Thompson
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:14:11 +0200
From: "Cees van den Heuvel" <heu at bart.nl>
To: "Butch Thompson" <butcht at sihope.com>,
"djml" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Copying Louis
Message-ID: <004d01c34b1e$6b03d060$6401a8c0 at cees1>
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Message: 15

Even when you read necessary.......

Cees van den Heuvel
www.revivaljassband.nl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Butch Thompson" <butcht at sihope.com>
To: "djml" <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: [Dixielandjazz] Copying Louis

>
> Here's what I'm wondering:  If Louis Armstrong is so easy to copy, why
have
> I never heard anyone do it successfully?
>
> I'm with Jim Beebe.  It has not and cannot be done.
>
> Butch Thompson
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dixielandjazz mailing list
> Dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
> http://ml.islandnet.com/mailman/listinfo/dixielandjazz

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:18:25 EDT
From: JBruno868 at aol.com
To: dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] More than one Euphonium
Message-ID: <14e.2166b086.2c45d7b1 at aol.com>
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Message: 16

In a message dated 7/15/03 1:07:11 PM, rebecca.e.thompson at verizon.net
writes:

<< How many RICH washboard players are there? >>

We may not be rich but our cloths are always clean.

Hugs

Judie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:49:32 -0500
From: "Texasjazzlover" <rebecca.e.thompson at verizon.net>
To: "Bill Gunter" <jazzboard at hotmail.com>,
<keng at iswest.com>,
<dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: RE: [Dixielandjazz] Two questions
Message-ID: <NFBBLGECELIKKECOHHFPGEJIECAA.rebecca.e.thompson at verizon.net>
In-Reply-To: <Law9-F57EOWrKDR8BJi0000598a at hotmail.com>
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Message: 17

AMEN!!!
rebecca

But I'm a pretty good entertainer and know
how to enjoy whatever it is I can do.

Respectfully submitted,

Bill "How Do I tune the goddam washboard?" Gunter
jazzboard at hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:19:53 +1000
From: "Phil O'Rourke" <philor at webone.com.au>
To: <barbonestreet at earthlink.net>
Cc: DJML <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] New Tunes
Message-ID: <001701c34b2f$fae0f9e0$fc8efea9 at webone.com.au>
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Message: 18

Stephen Barbone said

> Someone said that there are no new tunes to be played as Dixieland since
> after 1960, no music was written that fits polyphonic counterpoint. Or
> more bluntly, that music written after 1960 sucks. So therefore, a
> Dixieland Band cannot go after the kids with "their" music.
>
> I don't see it that way.

Steve, all the tunes you mentioned are aimed at kids in the fortys & fifties
(I won't ask how old you are to call them kids). Not quite what the subject
is about.
I think they are looking more at kids in their teens/early 20's.
There are bands in Melbourne, Australia made up of kids (real, not your
definition) that play current "pop" tunes that other kids can relate to. I
is amazing the number of teens/early 20's go to therse gigs. Some girls go
because of the young musos, that attracts more guys that attracts more girls
etc. These are kids whose parents relate to the music you are bragging
about.
Just because someone is not in the blue rinse set are they a kid.

Phil O'Rourke
Australia

------------------------------

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End of Dixielandjazz Digest, Vol 7, Issue 46
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