[Dixielandjazz] stride vs. comp

[briantowers]

Responding to Rob's query:
Some of us, myself included, do not like the monotony of a hi-hat being used
to keep the beat, it always seems like a cop-out to me.   However I
appreciate I am probably in the minority on this.
Cheers
Brian Towers,


> Hello all,
>
> Do you find that part of the drummer's role is also to assist with dynamic
> contrast?  It seems that big band drummers act almost as substitute
> conductors in "driving" the band, setting up the different sections, and
> leading the p's and ff's.  Keeping the beat rests with the hi hat and ride
> (and of course the string bass).  Is it the same while playing the
dixieland
> style?
>
> All the best,
> Rob McCallum
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David W. Littlefield <dwlit at cpcug.org>
> To: <dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] stride vs. comp
>
>
> > Whatever rhythm instrument one plays, one should do what's appropriate
to
> > the music genre, the basic style of the band, and what the others are
> > playing. This requires knowing what the leader wants and constant
> listening
> > to the sound of the *whole* band. A relevant factor when playing in
public
> > is what has entertainment value to the particular audience; relevant
also
> > when making records.
> >
> > In OKOM, there's a basic hierarchy: Horns are at the top, piano, then
> > banjo/guitar in the middle, bass below them, and drums at the bottom.
> > Rhythm players have to understand that they are there to support the
> horns,
> > to provide a *floor* so the horns play better and the dancers can
> > sure-footedly groove the roof. This is true whether the band play a
2-beat
> > or 4-beat style.
> >
> > Piano is the prime fill maker, and constitutionally has the freedom to
add
> > some touches of syncopation, etc., at other times. But piano must be
> > prepared to play straight rhythm, ie boom-chuck, or comp simply,
> instantly.
> > For example, the second he hears one or more horns playing syncops or
> > riffs, he should boom-chuck, because square 4/4 will propel the syncops
> > into the stratosphere; the other rhythm cats should do the same. The
bass
> > player may not like it, but 2-handed piano is part of the old music, and
> > boom-chucking gives the rhythm a lot more "whack". Piano should try to
> > sense whether the rhytmists want a little space to do fills. The other
> > night guitar and I felt the bass want to fill the 7th-8th bars, so we
let
> > up and gave him the space, last half of tune just stopped at those
> > measures; by then he knew we were giving him the floor, so he doubled
his
> > efforts; we did this for a couple of choruses, and it really lifted the
> > whole performance. From an OKOM listener's perspective, the active
> 2-fisted
> > piano adds to the entertainment value.
> >
> > Banjo/guitar are adjuncts to the percussion. Chunk, chunk, chunk! Listen
> > for when piano gives some space. The extent of their freedom depends on
> > whether the bass and drums are perfoming their proper roles! They try to
> > learn what support each horn soloist prefers. They should consider that
a
> > constant hard 4 rhythm needs to be relieved regularly or it comes to
have
> a
> > pounding effect. So: some off-beats, held notes, some syncops, glisses,
as
> > a change-up. Chunk-a chunk-a chunk-a style generally sucks, except that
in
> > an out chorus it's one very useful changeup for enhancing the intensity
of
> > the climax. I played/subbed on banjo with a couple of no-piano bands
where
> > the leader wanted straight 4/4; that was ok, except that whenever I
> > listened to both bands off the bandstand, I found the unrelieved 4/4 to
be
> > colorless, boring, and give that pounding effect. So when I played with
> > them, I put in a bit of relief. The drummer of one band used off-beats
now
> > and again, and standard fills; I usually played right along with him,
and
> > it was very effective, loads of fun to interact with him, and the
> > hornpersons usually were delighted. But basically straight rhythm is
> > required, and the main satisfaction for a string player must be to make
> the
> > band sound and feel better. Of course, the mindful leader will give
> > stringplayer some solo space. String (especially banjo) fills and solos
> > have decided entertainment value for the general public.
> >
> > Sorry bass and drums, but your role is basically straight rhythm. KISS.
A
> > few small changeups are cool, as is an *occasional* break, sometimes
even
> a
> > solo--perhaps a couple per set. Your main creativity must be in
supporting
> > the rest of the band; of course, the drummer has more tools to work
with,
> > and that can have significant impact on the sound and feel of the band.
> > Bass creativity has little basic entertainment value, can screw up the
> band
> > very easily.
> >
> > --Sheik
> >
> >
> > At 08:57 AM 1/22/2003 -0600, Pat Cooke wrote:
> > >      IMHO, stride is for solo piano....when you have a bass player,
> leave
> > >the bass notes for the bass to play.  I find a comping style much
easier
> to
> > >play bass with.
> > >      Also, a piano and a banjo(or guitar) in the same band is not a
good
> > >idea, unless they have played together long enough to know what chords
> the
> > >other will be using and when to make the changes.
> > >      I've played with a number of groups where the piano and banjo are
> > >playing different chords at the same time.....Maddening!
> > >    Pat Cooke
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Charlie Hull" <Charlie at easysounds.com>
> > >To: "Charlie Hooks" <charliehooks at earthlink.net>; "DJML"
> > ><dixielandjazz at ml.islandnet.com>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:51 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Solos vs. Banjo Styles
> > >
> > >
> > >> IMHO banjo can be compared to piano in a band.  Some pianists can't
let
> go
> > >> of striding or playing every beat even tho they can be set free by
> letting
> > >> the bass and drums carry the rhythm.  Ditto with banjoists -- many
> insist
> > >on
> > >> playing a chord for every beat, while others -- epitomized by Bill
> > >Dendle --
> > >> 'comp' like a good pianist, doing off-beat sparks and tasty fillins.
> > >> Depends on the band's makeup, too.  If you have both piano and banjo,
> you
> > >> don't want them both comping and filling at the same time.
> > >>
> > >> I agree whole-heartedly with Charlie Hooks.  A plink-plink-plink,
> > >> chord-on-every-beat banjo or piano can really box in a soloist's
> ability
> > >to
> > >> flow and use passing chords.  To me, it inhibits the imagination and
> > >> creative juices.
> > >>
> > >> But we are each unique, thank the Diety.  Viva la difference!
> > >>
> > >> Charlie Hull
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
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