[Dixielandjazz] Lil Armstrong (remark about passport listingdivorce of Lil)

John Farrell stridepiano@tesco.net
Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:52:09 +0100

Thanks for an interesting, enlightening post Charlie, which to a large
extent shoots down in flames Lincoln's reputation as the benevolent father
of  slave emancipation and democracy. I doubt very much if politicians of
any stripe or nationality will ever change for the better.

This thread is inextricably entwined with the jazz music that we on this
list love so much, for without the presence of black slaves in the US there
might never have been an Armstrong, or a James P. Johnson, or a Fats, etc.

Now tell us why Lincoln wore that silly hat.

John Farrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Hooks" <charliehooks@earthlink.net>
To: "DJML Dixieland Jazz" <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Lil Armstrong (remark about passport
listingdivorce of Lil)

> on 9/28/02 2:41 AM, Artwoo@aol.com at Artwoo@aol.com wrote:
> > A further stretch could be a holdover from the "Runaway Slave" laws
> > that were prevalent in both the North and South. These laws were
repealed in
> > the North by Congress in 1864 (note the Civil War started in 1861) but
> > obviously remained in the South until General Lee surrendered.
>     This entire business of North/South freeing the slaves and keeping the
> slaves--is all much misunderstood even by some American "historians" and
> completely misunderstood by foreign writers.  Let me explain just a bit:
>     It is said that "Lincoln freed the slaves."  He did free them, but
> in the South where he had (at the time) no jurisdiction.  HE DID NOT FREE
> THE SLAVES IN THE NORTH, where he did have jurisdiction, and said, when
> asked, that he would not do such a thing to his friends.
>     `In other words, freeing the Southern slaves was a Northern war
> it was hoped that they would rise up against their masters and aid the
> Northern cause (which they did not do).  This "Emancipation Proclamation"
> ran only in the South, not in the North.  It had absolutely nothing to do
> (except in the febrile minds of anti-slavery advocates) with "seeing the
> evil of slavery" or with thinking slaves equal to their masters or with
> other of the feel-good warm motives attributed by modern liberals.
>     "I am told that the Northern states were not as progressive as was
> advertised. Some speculate that the War between the States was more about
> competitive trade issues and less about human rights."
>     Whoever told you that was smarter than the politically correct
> historians!  The "human rights" issue existed only in the minds of
> anti-slavery propagandists.
>     No one, and I mean NO ONE!, at the time regarded black slaves as in
> way the equal of their masters!  Lincoln sat down in his office with the
> great "black" (mixed race) Douglass and told him straight out: "Your race
> and mine will never be able" to mix and be neighbors.   Lincoln thought
> best solution for "the Negro Problem" was a return to Africa, and he
> supported the Liberian movement--a return to Africa of those who chose to
> go--and where they named the place "Liberia", insituted slavery with
> themselves as the masters, and enslaved other Africans!
>     "[Armstrong's band] would travel all night because the town
> where he played would provide a place for him to perform, but not allow
> to sleep there...sounds like the Baby Jesus being refused a place to
>     Yes, his band and many others.  And it was this kind of unfairness
> brought many of us kids in the South to turn against apartheid during the
> 50s.  But "like the Baby Jesus"?  Umm.  Going a bit far, I'd say.  Even
> Louis would say...!  They were just ordinary black folks undergoing the
> transition from down to up, like Jews contended with out of Egypt, etc.
>     Realize, please!:  Many black gentlemen survived this transition
> Duke Groner, Andy Johnson, Jimmy Johnson, Joe Johnson--the list is
> interminable!  Out my front window now the light sears green leaves all
> a-trimble, but all these men, as boys, must have looked out their front
> windows back in the twenties and seen the same: the light doesn't care and
> neither do the leaves about color or race or anything to do with men. It
> just IS.  And we just ARE.
> Charlie
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