[Dixielandjazz] Re: Dixielandjazz digest, Vol 1 #271 - 15 msgs

Tue, 15 Oct 2002 06:41:43 EDT

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In a message dated 10/14/2002 7:02:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dixielandjazz-request@ml.islandnet.com writes:

> Message: 10
> From: "Patrick Cooke" <patcooke@cox.net>
> To: <barbonestreet@earthlink.net>,
>     "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" <dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Chords Again. James P Johnson to Dizzy 
> Gillespie
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:16:39 -0500
> 
> 
> 
> Steve wrote:
> >>>>probably I am missing something so you chord guys, help me out will 
> you?
> Otherwise I'll have to think either that JPJ was among the harmonic
> grandfathers of bebop, or that Monk played Dixieland. ;-)<<<
> 
>    The Gm6, The C9(root omitted), and the Em7b5 are all fingered exactly 
> the
> same on a guitar.  They all contain the same notes.
>     What you name a chord depends a lot on the chord before it and/or the
> chord that it resolves to.  All 3 chords have a dominant sound.  There are 
> a
> number of dominant substitutions that will also sound good.
>      The m7b5 designation is a later usage and it didn't appear in most 
> fake
> books until the latter part of the last century (1900's).  I had always
> related the Gm6 and the C9, but it took a while to get used to the m7b5
> designation.  Better get used to it, if you're going to be reading fake
> books.
>        Pat Cooke
> 
> 
> 
> 

Dan Spink replies:

Pat is right about almost everything in my opinion.The only that puzzles me 
about most of the chord construction comments is the underlying assumption 
(am I misreading this one?) that chords as defined in fake books are supposed 
to make harmonic sense. Often they do not. The publisher wants us to buy his 
sheet music hence does everything he can to make it look easy to play. In so 
doing he often destroys the original subtlties and misspells chords like 
crazy. Further, to make it look interesting to guitarists, they will throw in 
what are called cover chords, to complete a transition or simply vamp out a 
few bars. The result is expedient, not accurate, chord spelling. To quote 
Tony Ricigliano's great text, Popular and Jazz Harmony: "One of the most 
important points to remember when revising sheet music is that the guitar 
chords or symbols shown above the melody are NOT to be relied upon as an 
accurate analysis of the chords in the piano accompaniment for several 
reasons: 1) The symbols are not intended as a harmonic analysis but as an 
outline for the guitar (only) giving only the upper part of the chord (which 
is an incomplete definition), 2) The correct root or bass tone in an 
inversion is not indicated, 3) Moving patterns are rarely indicated, 4) Often 
too many chords are given due to the harmonization of the non-harmonic tones, 
5) Chords are sometimes omitted completely, and 6) Pedal points are not 
indicated.I always assume the sheet music is merely an outline of chord 
directions and go from there with my ear. Hope this is helpful.

Dan (piano fingers) Spink

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<HTML>In a message dated 10/14/2002 7:02:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dixielandjazz-request@ml.islandnet.com writes: 
 
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Message: 10 
From: "Patrick Cooke" &lt;patcooke@cox.net&gt; 
To: &lt;barbonestreet@earthlink.net&gt;, 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "Dixieland Jazz Mailing List" &lt;dixielandjazz@ml.islandnet.com&gt; 
Subject: Re: [Dixielandjazz] Chords Again. James P Johnson to Dizzy Gillespie 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:16:39 -0500 
 
 
 
Steve wrote: 
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;probably I am missing something so you chord guys, help me out will you? 
Otherwise I'll have to think either that JPJ was among the harmonic 
grandfathers of bebop, or that Monk played Dixieland. ;-)&lt;&lt;&lt; 
 
&nbsp;&nbsp; The Gm6, The C9(root omitted), and the Em7b5 are all fingered exactly the 
same on a guitar.&nbsp; They all contain the same notes. 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; What you name a chord depends a lot on the chord before it and/or the 
chord that it resolves to.&nbsp; All 3 chords have a dominant sound.&nbsp; There are a 
number of dominant substitutions that will also sound good. 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The m7b5 designation is a later usage and it didn't appear in most fake 
books until the latter part of the last century (1900's).&nbsp; I had always 
related the Gm6 and the C9, but it took a while to get used to the m7b5 
designation.&nbsp; Better get used to it, if you're going to be reading fake 
books. 
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pat Cooke 
 
 
 
</BLOCKQUOTE> 
 
Dan Spink replies: 
 
Pat is right about almost everything in my opinion.The only that puzzles me about most of the chord construction comments is the underlying assumption (am I misreading this one?) that chords as defined in fake books are supposed to make harmonic sense. Often they do not. The publisher wants us to buy his sheet music hence does everything he can to make it look easy to play. In so doing he often destroys the original subtlties and misspells chords like crazy. Further, to make it look interesting to guitarists, they will throw in what are called cover chords, to complete a transition or simply vamp out a few bars. The result is expedient, not accurate, chord spelling. To quote Tony Ricigliano's great text, Popular and Jazz Harmony: "One of the most important points to remember when revising sheet music is that the guitar chords or symbols shown above the melody are NOT to be relied upon as an accurate analysis of the chords in the piano accompaniment for several reasons: 1) The symbols are not intended as a harmonic analysis but as an outline for the guitar (only) giving only the upper part of the chord (which is an incomplete definition), 2) The correct root or bass tone in an inversion is not indicated, 3) Moving patterns are rarely indicated, 4) Often too many chords are given due to the harmonization of the non-harmonic tones, 5) Chords are sometimes omitted completely, and 6) Pedal points are not indicated.I always assume the sheet music is merely an outline of chord directions and go from there with my ear. Hope this is helpful. 
 
Dan (piano fingers) Spink</HTML>

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